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openly bluffing early in DYM?

edited March 2011 in The Poker Clinic
right this might look like a strage hand to post in the clinic. The reason im posting this is because i have a good record in DYM but want to get the communities opinion. this is the 2nd hand, I missed the first still loading up. i cruised my way to victory after this hand as everyone seemed to be very unsure about me. On a whole worth it?
leon621 Small blind  10.00 10.00 1970.00
boycie002 Big blind  20.00 30.00 1980.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • 3
     
tie1970 Call  20.00 50.00 2100.00
small04 Fold     
skaman1 Fold     
lanfeust Call  20.00 70.00 1880.00
leon621 Raise  70.00 140.00 1900.00
boycie002 Fold     
tie1970 Fold     
lanfeust Call  60.00 200.00 1820.00
Flop
   
  • 10
  • 8
  • 3
     
leon621 Bet  100.00 300.00 1800.00
lanfeust Call  100.00 400.00 1720.00
Turn
   
  • 10
     
leon621 Bet  200.00 600.00 1600.00
lanfeust Call  200.00 800.00 1520.00
River
   
  • 2
   
im gona tell you i lost this hand to 66, any opinions on what you would do on the river and if this is worth doing in your opinion is appreciated

Comments

  • edited March 2011
    i dont think you need to get involved early on with raggy ace hands oop
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    i dont think you need to get involved early on with raggy ace hands oop
    Posted by N1CK
    ok fair comment and im not ever making this play regardless of possition in any other format, but on a whole is it worth it in DYM, I now have a great deal of info on one player as does everyone else, but im still very unpridictable
  • edited March 2011
    Ugh!!

    Sorry to be blunt but i think that is a terrible thing to do in a dym at that early stage.

    Its an auto snap FOLD preflop.

    I usually only bluff in dyms later on when the pots are worth winning because the blinds are big. And those bluffs are rebluffs and squeezes mainly when i think i have a good read on my opponants.

  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : ok fair comment and im not ever making this play regardless of possition in any other format, but on a whole is it worth it in DYM, I now have a great deal of info on one player as does everyone else, but im still very unpridictable
    Posted by leon621
    You dont need to be unpredictable at low/mid stake dyms, just do the same things well each time and you will win over time. There are lots of bad players who will call call call early and will not believe your bluffs. So bet with your big hands.

    save the "dancing" for cash games imo.

  • edited March 2011
    U wudnt even limp for 10 chips here? ^^^^^
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    U wudnt even limp for 10 chips here? ^^^^^
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    NO!

    A waste of 10 chips. Ok i know we are drawing to the nuts but how often do we flop a flush or a fd that we can keep cheap on the flop?

    We are out of position. dump it. keep the discipline.
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    U wudnt even limp for 10 chips here? ^^^^^
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    I would have a look 100% of the time, your soooo tight Gregor :)
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    Ugh!! Sorry to be blunt but i think that is a terrible thing to do in a dym at that early stage. Its an auto snap FOLD preflop. I usually only bluff in dyms later on when the pots are worth winning because the blinds are big. And those bluffs are rebluffs and squeezes mainly when i think i have a good read on my opponants.
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    you see these are the responses i was almost certain of getting, you see over the last two months i think DYM's have changed a great deal and there are too many people willing to wait too long long to make moves and end up getting to a stage where there are shoves, big bluffs, bigger rebluffs and i think this is more like gambling rather than poker
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : you see these are the responses i was almost certain of getting, you see over the last two months i think DYM's have changed a great deal and there are too many people willing to wait too long long to make moves and end up getting to a stage where there are shoves, big bluffs, bigger rebluffs and i think this is more like gambling rather than poker
    Posted by leon621
    Yes some tables are full of unknown nits so i punish them when the blinds go up. No need to potentially leak chips early against people we have no reads on.

  • edited March 2011
    with 2 limps already making up for the extra 10 is fine
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : I would have a look 100% of the time, your soooo tight Gregor :)
    Posted by goodylad21
    I take a look in this spot with small/medium pocket pairs, i just have an irrational hatred of raggy aces oop. Suited or not.

    You might be right, it probably is too tight, but it works for me in dyms.

  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : ok fair comment and im not ever making this play regardless of possition in any other format, but on a whole is it worth it in DYM, I now have a great deal of info on one player as does everyone else, but im still very unpridictable
    Posted by leon621
    no i dont think its worth it, in the early stages i would just sit back and let the bad players spew off chips to each other whilst they do that you gain more equity in the sng and get an idea as to how everyone plays, as the blinds increase you will have a better idea of the best candidates to accumulate chips from if thats how you want to play
  • edited March 2011
    Tried the old all in first hand earlier when I had AA after a raise and call, makes it look like im stupid perhaps, or that i'm tilting. Worked and got called by A10. despite the case ace coming I lost. Then some horrid women on another table criticised me for folding every hand in the first 4 levels. Unbelievable.

    As already mentioned don't bother bluffing till the blind are worth stealing. Rember you aim is not to come first it's to not lose your chips.
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : you see these are the responses i was almost certain of getting, you see over the last two months i think DYM's have changed a great deal and there are too many people willing to wait too long long to make moves and end up getting to a stage where there are shoves, big bluffs, bigger rebluffs and i think this is more like gambling rather than poker
    Posted by leon621
    i agree but by taking it slow at the start you will see who wants to gamble and whos waiting around for the krap shoot at the later stages, so by preserving your stack early on you can take advantage of the tight guys in the mid stages
  • edited March 2011
    You can hit 33x, A3x, A-d-d, 3dd, 245, 24x w/2 diamonds.

    I'd even go krazy and limp in late pos for a whole 20 chips!!!!! (w 2 limpers in already)

    Or CALL a raise from the bb for 20 more on top - only if I was drunk though, discipline soon goes out of the window after a galon.
  • edited March 2011
    right i understand that most players regardless of respect in the community are not doing this and think on a whole it is not going to work. I would like gregg to think of this hand as 72 OS and i would like to pose the question to everyone else, has anyone else noticed the gambling by players after the blinds hit 150
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    right i understand that most players regardless of respect in the community are not doing this and think on a whole it is not going to work. I would like gregg to think of this hand as 72 OS and i would like to pose the question to everyone else, has anyone else noticed the gambling by players after the blinds hit 150
    Posted by leon621
    I don't understand what you mean Leon sorry.

    Also, why am i excluded from answering your question. "has anyone noticed  the gambling by players after the blinds hit 150?" I have an answer if you want to hear it.


  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : I don't understand what you mean Leon sorry. Also why am i excluded from answering your 2nd question?
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    right i will tell you why, its because iv been on the stella since 3 and i keep mistyping lol if thats a real word and the reason i want you to think of this as 72 is because im playing that hand the same way, im not playing a raggy suited ace here im playing the table
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : right i will tell you why, its because iv been on the stella since 3 and i keep mistyping lol if thats a real word and the reason i want you to think of this as 72 is because im playing that hand the same way, im not playing a raggy suited ace here im playing the table
    Posted by leon621
    What is the value in creating a pot out of position with junk at level one of a DYM?  I understand what you are saying but I dont think there is any value in "creating an image" in a dym. Save this for deepstack mtts and cash. 

    In a dym you only have a limited amount of chips and time. every chip is precious.

    Later on when the blinds are like 100 or 150, when you have seen how passive everyone is, you can make this play pre with any2 to take down the dead money. (as long as the stacks allow for this, i.e your raise doesnt commit either of u)

    I like the way you have bet the hand though, and i would bet a similar way with all my premium pairs so you have represented a big hand well. But you dont know at this early stage if your opponant understands this!

    DYM's are a simple game, there is no need to complicate them imo!
    and yes, there is a lot of shoving in the latter stages. But, i consider what you have done in this hand (raising oop with junk against a random opponant and continuing to fire what are essentially bluffs) to be more of a gamble than the shoving part of a dym. because by preserving my chips for the latter stages i have more "power"  to put pressure on the other stacks, and more chance to double my money!

    if Sky did dym's with much longer blinds then i can see more of an argument for messing about early. I prob wouldnt though, i would rock up as per norm:) 
  • edited March 2011
    We Are The Chip Preservation Society!
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : What is the value in creating a pot out of position with junk at level one of a DYM?  I understand what you are saying but I dont think there is any value in "creating an image" in a dym. Save this for deepstack mtts and cash.  In a dym you only have a limited amount of chips and time. every chip is precious. Later on when the blinds are like 100 or 150, when you have seen how passive everyone is, you can make this play pre with any2 to take down the dead money. (as long as the stacks allow for this, i.e your raise doesnt commit either of u) I like the way you have bet the hand though, and i would bet a similar way with all my premium pairs so you have represented a big hand well. But you dont know at this early stage if your opponant understands this! DYM's are a simple game, there is no need to complicate them imo! and yes, there is a lot of shoving in the latter stages. But, i consider what you have done in this hand (raising oop with junk against a random opponant and continuing to fire what are essentially bluffs) to be more of a gamble than the shoving part of a dym. because by preserving my chips for the latter stages i have more "power"  to put pressure on the other stacks, and more chance to double my money! if Sky did dym's with much longer blinds then i can see more of an argument for messing about early. I prob wouldnt though, i would rock up as per norm:) 
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    ok i understand your argument as you have made a very strong one. You have clearly got a system that works for you, i think this is a system a lot of DYM players use which is why i think its getting harder. I have put my approach across as i believe in any form of poker reads and image play a major part from start to finish. My style may very well be from a boxing past 'start well, end well and the middle is forgoten'
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM?:
    In Response to Re: openly bluffing early in DYM? : ok i understand your argument as you have made a very strong one. You have clearly got a system that works for you, i think this is a system a lot of DYM players use which is why i think its getting harder. I have put my approach across as i believe in any form of poker reads and image play a major part from start to finish. My style may very well be from a boxing past 'start well, end well and the middle is forgoten'
    Posted by leon621
    the problem is if you start the way you did in that hand you stand a good chance of getting KOd in the first round, know what i mean arry,,
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