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played correctly right?

edited March 2011 in The Poker Clinic
opening hand on a bounty hunter im only putting this on here because i received alot of verbal afterwards. I had 88 and hit my trips on the river, my opponent was ahead after the flop but i still believe he played so poorly he cant complain
 
Small blind  10.00 10.00 1990.00
WYLIEBOB Big blind  20.00 30.00 1980.00
  Your hole cards
  • 8
  • 8
     
beeasyonme Raise  100.00 130.00 1900.00
robruno199 Fold     
dezpaula30 Call  100.00 230.00 1900.00
maxb Fold     
Call  90.00 320.00 1900.00
WYLIEBOB Fold     
Flop
   
  • J
  • A
  • 3
     
Check     
beeasyonme Bet  160.00 480.00 1740.00
dezpaula30 Fold     
Call  160.00 640.00 1740.00
Turn
   
  • 6
     
Check     
beeasyonme Bet  320.00 960.00 1420.00
Call  320.00 1280.00 1420.00
River
   
  • 8
     
Check     
beeasyonme All-in  1420.00 2700.00 0.00
All-in  1420.00 4120.00 0.00
Show
  • 5
  • A
   
beeasyonme Show
  • 8
  • 8
   
beeasyonme Win Three 8s 4120.00  4120.00

Comments

  • edited March 2011
    im not sure about your c bet on the flop as i dont think you have any fold equity on that board vs 2 opponents, you get one call and still fire the turn then get there on the river, his turn call is debatable and his river call is pretty bad as he is only really beating a bluff
  • edited March 2011
    ok i realise i may have been too aggresive here. If i tell you my thinking behind this can you tell me if im looking at it the wrong way.
    my pre flop play is fine with 88. AsJd3s on the flop i get one checker, i then bet strong thinking the majority of the time this flop is good for a pre flop raiser and the player in poss folds and x calls. I now think he has jx or QK or XXss.6c then comes out i fire out again hard to prevent him from chasing or playing 2nd pair. My set comes on the river and i decide to shove as he's calling anything anyway..

    am i putting too much thought into this as its the opening hand and have 0 reads  
  • edited March 2011
    You bet to see where you were, or to push out maybe 9's or 10's, nothing wrong with that.  He decided not see where he was, or apply pressure, maybe tried to trap.  Ended up paying the price.  Plus he called 5x bb with A5...
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: played correctly right?:
    You bet to see where you were, or to push out maybe 9's or 10's, nothing wrong with that.  He decided not see where he was, or apply pressure, maybe tried to trap.  Ended up paying the price.  Plus he called 5x bb with A5...
    Posted by AMYBR
    Lol not just a 5x with A5 he has called 3 barrels as well and called his stack off with A rag on the river.

    His play is appalling. Would have been a legendary call if you'd missed the 8 on the river and still jammed mind you.
  • edited March 2011

    this hand was completly readless so the barrel on the turn has got to be a leak, there is very little villian calls the flop with that folds the turn. these a whole load of aces and jacks in villians range. I really dont understand the turn bet, the only reasonable hands your betting for value against are FDs so your turning your hand into a bad bluff with a bet on the turn, check-fold turn IMO.

    as played obviously jam river.

  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: played correctly right?:
    this hand was completly readless so the barrel on the turn has got to be a leak, there is very little villian calls the flop with that folds the turn. these a whole load of aces and jacks in villians range. I really dont understand the turn bet, the only reasonable hands your betting for value against are FDs so your turning your hand into a bad bluff with a bet on the turn, check-fold turn IMO. as played obviously jam river.
    Posted by ciderhic
    iv explained my thinking in a previous post which explains my bet on the turn, do you not agree with my thinking here
  • edited March 2011
    i wouldnt even cbet the flop tbh
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: played correctly right?:
    In Response to Re: played correctly right? : iv explained my thinking in a previous post which explains my bet on the turn, do you not agree with my thinking here
    Posted by beeasyonme
    Sry I only read the OP so didnt get to read your follow on post.

    Flop: I think you can go either way on the flop, check/fold or c-bet, It's close dosnt matter too much.

    I understand your playing aggresive and trying to fold out Jacks on the turn, I just dont think turning your hand into a bluff is +EV in this spot. Villian has more aces than jacks in his range for a start, the very fact that you got floated on the flop should set alarm bells ringing in your head, you c-bet flop into two players and got called, that gives you loads of infomation, mostly its telling you, you are beat. Basicly you are beating a very small part of his range, mostly FDs and even rarer pairs smaller than yours and complete air, you should discount air and assume hes not that capable. The turn changes nothing and barreling into mosly aces and jacks is -EV simply 'cause you are getting called way to much. Check/fold to most turn bets, unless he bets small and weak looking IMO. If he does have a FD or some small pair alot of the time he checks back so you get to the river with the best hand anyway. If he does bluff you on the turn so be it, he has position and the right to do so, wp to him.

    put simply betting the turn mostly only gets called by better.
  • edited March 2011
    Beeasy you had a go with a c bet on the flop and he called,the turn card is a blank,you bet he calls again,you must now start to think i am behind,what is he calling you with?It is the opening hand so you could have easily went check fold on the turn and still have had a decent stack.

    You got lucky on the river well that's poker
  • edited March 2011
    yeah, pretty obvious he shuts it down on the river without the set though.
  • edited March 2011
    5x raise pre means a big ace is absolutely in your range, so repping the ace on flop is absolutely fine, if both players called without an ace in their hand, you take it down then.

    As it is, the fact someone called a 5x raise pre, then a solid c-bet means one of two things- they have a strong ace, and aren't folding, or they have a weak ace, are a weak player, and aren't folding. Because a decent player lays A5 down pre. So one way or another, your opponent has an A here and isn't going away. 

    In position on the turn, I check behind for definite. Nothing to be gained here by betting, take the free card and hope to bink. If the villain is slightly above terrible, you have a better chance of him seeing that turn check as weakness and taking a stab on the end, probably calling allin (obviously this one isn't seeing beyond his own two, so happy days). 

    I like all the play apart from the turn, personally.
  • ybyb
    edited March 2011
    raise smaller pre, I prob wouldn't cbet that flop against 2 opponents and def would check back turn.
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: played correctly right?:
    5x raise pre means a big ace is absolutely in your range, so repping the ace on flop is absolutely fine, if both players called without an ace in their hand, you take it down then. As it is, the fact someone called a 5x raise pre, then a solid c-bet means one of two things- they have a strong ace, and aren't folding, or they have a weak ace, are a weak player, and aren't folding. Because a decent player lays A5 down pre. So one way or another, your opponent has an A here and isn't going away.  In position on the turn, I check behind for definite. Nothing to be gained here by betting, take the free card and hope to bink. If the villain is slightly above terrible, you have a better chance of him seeing that turn check as weakness and taking a stab on the end, probably calling allin (obviously this one isn't seeing beyond his own two, so happy days).  I like all the play apart from the turn, personally.
    Posted by DeucesLive
    cheers i can fully relate to this, i think if the other player calls the flop im playing more carefull on the turn. The fact i got a check/caller made me think that his hand is not that strong and i try to shut it down and i discarded an A all together, but as mentioned when 2 players call 5XBB one of them must have an A 9/10 times anyway
  • edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: played correctly right?:
    Beeasy you had a go with a c bet on the flop and he called,the turn card is a blank,you bet he calls again,you must now start to think i am behind,what is he calling you with?It is the opening hand so you could have easily went check fold on the turn and still have had a decent stack. You got lucky on the river well that's poker
    Posted by Spikelad
    of course after i bet the turn and he called i know im behind, i then actually thought he was slow playing AJ as some players do. i think post flop X made the decision he would bet it all and if at any stage i get a raise, im folding. Players like this that limp to the finish with top pair no kicker often get beat on the river and its there own fault for not taking any controle. Yes i got lucky this time but i have been very unlucky many of times against this sort of player
  • edited March 2011
    The point is, you can't preflop determine anything about their ranges- it contains aces, but it could be just about anything, so narrowing down your read by betting the flop is fine- you fold out all the non-ace hands that could suck out on you.

    The mistake is not shutting down when you get the information back from him- he has a hand when he calls you, and it's almost always an ace, and you can gain from his play that he's probably a weak player, with a weak kicker, who won't fold. With that in mind, you can't make him fold with a bet, and you're behind when you bet, so betting is a mistake. Forget the fact you hit, he gave you the free card to take on the turn- take it! Only time you bet there is if you beat most of the aces out there- so if you have AK/AQ, A10 even or any 2 pair combo/set, that's the time to bet the turn, and probably get paid.

    No need to really worry too much about mixing up your play with unknowns, because they're just not going to be seeing patterns in what you do. Try and bet when you're ahead, check when you're behind- they tend to give off plenty of info that gives that away.
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