Folding kk preflop

hamster880

hi

I have never done this before, and think i might have been an absolute idiot for doing so. But, this guy is very tight and said earlier to another player he folded pocket queens preflop (actually against me):

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceCraigyB372Small blind £0.10£0.10£10.57hamster880Big blind £0.20£0.30£33.13 Your hole cardsKK   xxxxxCall £0.20£0.50£29.08MizroeRaise £0.60£1.10£23.82izzysteerFold    CraigyB372Fold    hamster880Raise £2.60£3.70£30.53xxxxxRaise £11.40£15.10£17.68MizroeFold    hamster880Fold    xxxxxMuck    xxxxxWin £6.30 £23.98xxxxxReturn £8.80£0.00£32.7

BigBluster

Years ago it was easy - the third raise was always aces. But nowadays, with people 3 and 4 betting very light that's not the case.

Key thing with this case though - he limped under the gun. No doubt about it, he's got the aces. There is absolutely no other hand he can have.

Forever beware the UTG limper who then re-raises - that always used to be a dead giveaway for aces. It's a classic play from the old school but rarely works nowadays. It rarely works because a UTG limp sends off all kinds of warning signals in players' minds, so they often just call with a pocket pair, set mine, and hope to felt the smart alec with the bullets.

N1CK

dont believe what they say in chat

i would need concrete evidence to ever consider folding kings pf but the dumb way he played this hands its like 98% in my mind he has aces here....and its 150 deep.......................i would fold too i would hate it but i would fold,

and i would 3 bet smaller here ok your oop but kings is good

BigBluster

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

dont believe what they say in chat i would need concrete evidence to ever consider folding kings pf but the dumb way he played this hands its like 98% in my mind he has aces here....and its 150 deep.......................i would fold too i would hate it but i would fold
Posted by N1CK

He played it exactly how Brunson recommends in Super/System!

N1CK

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop : He played it exactly how Brunson recommends in Super/System!
Posted by BigBluster

really? i might dust it off and take a look

Headup2

lol at this

ratedRKO

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

dont believe what they say in chat i would need concrete evidence to ever consider folding kings pf but the dumb way he played this hands its like 98% in my mind he has aces here....and its 150 deep.......................i would fold too i would hate it but i would fold, and i would 3 bet smaller here ok your oop but kings is good
Posted by N1CK

you wouldnt hate it, u love to fold!! every post ive ever read from u is "fold" lol seriously do u ever actually play a hand?

AMYBR

Think you can only fold K's when sat super deep.  But I know where you're coming from.  Had to fold Q's in a similar pre flop scenario, but there was a 3rd party in the hand, making the bets pretty easy to read.  If your gut screams at you that your behind, often pays to listen.

In this spot the guy could have decided he just wasnt going to fold AKs, or felt he was protecting with Q's through 9's.  His  4 bet sizing is worrying though.

YOUNG_GUN

Dont ever fold Kings preflop as in the long run it will cost you

Even against nittiest nit in nitvville ALL IN, worse comes to worse bink a King

N1CK

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop : you wouldnt hate it, u love to fold!! every post ive ever read from u is "fold" lol seriously do u ever actually play a hand?
Posted by ratedRKO

yeah but nearly all my folds have been correct not that im bothered from the opinions of a spew monkey

donkeyplop

Was the villain spdbrkr?

If so its prob a fold, saying that id get it in just to outdraw him

DeucesLive

I know the guy you're talking about, and fwiw I do believe he had QQ when you had that lil blind vs blind raising war (what did you have there out of interest- I put you on AK?)

That's a horribly tough fold, but when you think there's 4 premium hands out there and he 100% has one of them- having seen him fold QQ preflop I do think you can probably rule that out, there's like almost no chance he has KK so it's AK or AA- very much doubt he's limping with AK then heavily reraising 2 players. Terrible play if he is.

I think perhaps in this spot you can find the fold with KK- it's almost never a good fold, but the way this has played out I can see it. Would love to see this hand on the clinic and see what the analysts think.

DOHHHHHHH

This fold is insane unless "it's him"

If "it's him" you should include his name, as long as you aren't discussing your reads or insulting him, it's fine to include his name.

hamster880

In the situtation above the fact that he was UTG and doing something sneeky really made me think. Also, he was so deep stacked and massive re-raise (plus he said he had fold queens preflop earlier)

I dont know about the NEVER folding king preflop (you will lose money arguement). Poker I think is so situational and given in the situation above I think i probably made the right decision - though i still feel sick having to fold the hand

DeucesLive

it wasn't 'him', but possibly someone equally tight

scrumdown

limp in from under gun then a re raise like that only hand i put him is aces

rats107

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

it wasn't 'him', but possibly someone equally tight
Posted by DeucesLive

nah, impossible

CrazyBen23

If hes a reg whos on a few tables could be aces, if it someone random halfwit, it could be any two cards, in which case obv call

ratedRKO

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop : yeah but nearly all my folds have been correct not that im bothered from the opinions of a spew monkey
Posted by N1CK

LOL touch a nerve did i? geez only a laugh fella! so ur basis this on wot 1 hand i posted in the clinic? (well 2 actually, 1st 1 woz where i folded AA to lolraise big river overbet- a hand not surprisingly u agreed wit and said it woz a 'fold') tbf tho i do agree i do spew alot of money, but has to expected with the way i play. but good thing is the money i spew is only money ive made from not bein a total nit & foldin the 2nd nutz every hand!

and no your wrong 'not nearly all my folds have been correct' just look at this hand. foldin KK pre is ridiculous

im not gonna get into an arguement wit ya anyway. keep foldin :-)

N1CK

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop : LOL touch a nerve did i? geez only a laugh fella! so ur basis this on wot 1 hand i posted in the clinic? tbf tho i do agree i do spew alot of money, but has to expected with the way i play. but good thing is the money i spew is only money ive made from not bein a total nit & foldin the 2nd nutz every hand! and no your wrong 'not nearly all my folds have been correct' just look at this hand. foldin KK pre is ridiculous im not gonna get into an arguement wit ya anyway. keep foldin :-)
Posted by ratedRKO

i really dont think folding kings 150 bb to this player in this situation is ridiculous

ratedRKO

what player? a player who is xxxed out who SAID in the chtbox he folded QQ earlier?

N1CK

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

what player? a player who is xxxed out who SAID in the chtbox he folded QQ earlier?
Posted by ratedRKO

no a very tight player who limps utg then basically 4bet jams for 150 BBs

izzysteer

I saw the hand as it was happening and believed it to be a large pocket pair. It however, could have easily been queens. The player is tight and was definately trying to trap you. This player, however saw you reraising preflop on many occassions and may not have believed you were doing so with such a strong hand as kings. He possibly percieved you as being looser than you are and was hoping you would be calling with a non royal pair.

izzysteer

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

I saw the hand as it was happening and believed it to be a large pocket pair. It however, could have easily been queens. The player is tight and was definately trying to trap you. This player, however saw you reraising preflop on many occassions and may not have believed you were doing so with such a strong hand as kings. He possibly percieved you as being looser than you are and was hoping you would be calling with a non royal pair.
Posted by izzysteer

P.s I do not believe the folding queens things because if most people had done it they would not write it in the chat box.

delaney09

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop:

In Response to Re: Folding kk preflop : P.s I do not believe the folding queens things because if most people had done it they would not write it in the chat box.
Posted by izzysteer

i have written in the chat box many times when i have folded a big'ish' hand cause sometimes u get that one person who will tell u what they made the massive raise-shove-what not which gives u a rough idea how they will play these hands and when to fold against these type of players who instead of re raising like to cold shove etc. even when i have had to fold AK cause not wanting to get in races close to bubble.... i often put in chat box folded AK u have AA KK QQ ????? and usually get a response of a big pair obviously they could be bs'ing but sometimes you just know when your beat against some people

Spikelad

This to me is very player dependant,if you think he has Aces then fold,however the general advice is that you should never fold Kings preflop as over a period of time it is a losing play

From what you have said Hamster about the villian i would put him on Aces here,please show this hand on the poker clinic.