should you just flat jj preflop or re-raise

hamster880

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
hamster880	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£36.27
FCB	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£37.73
	Your hole cards	J J
URDADDY	Raise		£1.20	£1.65	£36.39
Headup2	Fold
Gunnarsten	Fold
nathan1983	Call		£1.20	£2.85	£8.01
hamster880	Raise		£4.65	£7.50	£31.62
FCB	Fold
URDADDY	Call		£3.60	£11.10	£32.79
nathan1983	Call		£3.60	£14.70	£4.41
Flop
		3 A K
hamster880	Check
URDADDY	Bet		£14.70	£29.40	£18.09
nathan1983	All-in		£4.41	£33.81	£0.00
hamster880	Fold
URDADDY	Unmatched bet		£10.29	£23.52	£28.38
URDADDY	Show	10 A
nathan1983	Show	10 A
Turn
		6
River
		9
URDADDY	Win	Pair of Aces	£11.17		£39.55
nathan1983	Win	Pair of Aces	£11.17		£11.17

delaney09

i personally always flat a raise with JJ unless in a tournament and short stacked but in cash i tend to flat and see a flop because if you 4 bet then some one 5 bets your 90% of the time going to fold before seeing a flop so flat calling is usually the best option then if you see a flop with over cards you can easily get off without putting another penny in.... or you can play like a guy i had on my table tuesday i had AA raised 4x on 20nl and he just shoved all in 100bb so i snapped and he hits a J on the river lol

penguin7

Good question ! In tournaments I usually raise with JJ, and hope for a favourable flop. I have been doing the same in my attempts to play cash. But I would like to hear from some of the cash guys, how much does it depend on position etc ?

hamster880

In this situation above i elected to re-raise as i knew both players were a little looser than others so thought might build the pot a little (and get maxium value if the flop is favourable - as you can see it wasnt).

With tens/nine i would definately flat (unless i had a definate read that the guy was really weak and i wanted to take down the pot their and then) - but jj i find the kind of cut off pair. Really find it difficult to judge especially if you are playing against an unknown.

You think though if you flat with jacks then you would also flat with AK?

I suspect on this their will be big difference between cash and tourney players.

penguin7

Lot of difference between JJ and AK. JJ is more of a made hand. In tournies AK is often a flat call having little value without the flop. Unless you have A 10/J/Q comfortably in his range

scotty77

eithers ok.  as the deeper you get, generally its more of a call as you don't really wanna be getting into 4bet pots with JJ.

with 100bb vs a random 3betting with the intention of getting in is ok.  against a lot of nitty regs you should be playing JJ as you would 22 and just hope to flop a set and therefore its ok to flat, even 100bb deep

AMYBR

If I think I'm playing against an opponent who will respect the 3 bet I'll re raise, but if I dont feel like he's even going to entertain laying down AK/Q then I'll flat. 

On the occassion where you're crushed the extra bet gives you much needed info going to the flop.  If he has Q's upwards, and the flop comes 8 high, the extra bet gives you that much of a better feel for your opponents range.

But ultimately if your playing against someone who wont fold AK/Q, I turn JJ into 22 and ask myself how i'd play it.  For all intents and purposes your playing the same hand as on a 10 high flop your not folding a low pair if you believe he has A pic, nor are you folding the J's (excluding the wet boards).  If he didnt have A pic or a hand crushing you to begin wih, then it would always be an arror not to 3 bet anyhow.