NL 20, 2 hands

JohnConnor

Ok, brand new to cash, this is the first of hopefully many 'serious' sessions where I try to learn the game. Coming from a tournament/STT background I'm pretty sure one of my biggest problems is going to be laying down big hands/'believing' people.

Hand 1: No reads. I raise pre and get 1 caller in the sb. I c-bet the flop and get flatted. I'm thinking he has a big Jack (with my shallow-stack background there's no way I'm thinking 8. Should I be?). Turn is a brick and he checks again. Thinking he has a Jack I bet again for value - should I check behind here, small hand small pot? When he raises the turn what do I do? Do I really need to consider an 8 here and lay the As down? Should I get it in thinking he has a Jack?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceDons1983Small blind £0.10£0.10£23.44spdbrkrBig blind £0.20£0.30£20.19 Your hole cardsAA   JohnConnorRaise £0.60£0.90£19.33chris810Fold    dumpthelotFold    Dons1983Call £0.50£1.40£22.94spdbrkrFold    Flop  8J8   Dons1983Check    JohnConnorBet £1.05£2.45£18.28Dons1983Call £1.05£3.50£21.89Turn  2   Dons1983Check    JohnConnorBet £2.30£5.80£15.98Dons1983Raise £6.35£12.15£15.54JohnConnor

2nd hand: No specific reads but villain is a tight reg. Button seems agressive so far. I'm confident I'm ahead of him, am I right to 3 bet oop, what's my sizing like? Villain cold calls 3 bet oop, what's a tight regs range for doing this? On the flop is the c-bet correct? After he flats the flop, do I need to shut down completely? I just hate the thought of leaving that pot behind with the stack I have, is this just something I need to learn to get used to? Should I be thinking a lot more about pot committment issues on earlier streets to avoid this situation?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceJohnConnorSmall blind £0.10£0.10£19.38VillainBig blind £0.20£0.30£38.38 Your hole cardsAK   blackbeltbCall £0.20£0.50£31.07ButtonRaise £1.00£1.50£15.73JohnConnorRaise £2.90£4.40£16.48VillainCall £2.80£7.20£35.58blackbeltbFold    ButtonCall £2.00£9.20£13.73Flop  1057   JohnConnorBet £4.60£13.80£11.88VillainCall £4.60£18.40£30.98ButtonFold    Turn  4   JohnConnor


Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated,
JC

delaney09

my opinion may not be much

but first hand i would just flat call behind cause if your re raise and he then shoves you have no idea where you are and more likely to go towards folding then calling if it turns out he does have an 8 you gain valuable info on the player which will benefit you when you come across him again,

2nd hand definitely some sort of PP possibly even a flopped set, dont think they would make a call of 4.60 with AJ AQ when the turn is a blank i shut down and see what he does then re evaluate more then likely anything from JJ to 99

good luck in the transition over to cash

DeucesLive

the main thing I always think is when a passive player starts raising, gtfo unless you're holding the nuts. It's only one hand, but the guy looks fairly passive from his preflop play- it's a classic thing that they'll play almost any two from the blinds unless you raise 4x absolute minimum, which isn't a bad thing. Check/calling flop and then check/raising turn is a very, very bad sign indeed- but it really does depend on his level. Did he wake up with QQ/KK and think he's slowplaying them? Did he have AJ and think he's slowplaying that? I don't think it's worth the risk personally, you've still only got ~£3 invested, if you push it any further you're putting another £16 in guaranteed, and you're very likely to be pulling to 2 outs. You only need him to take one similar hand to showdown to make a note on what he turns up, and you'll have a better idea if you made the right fold.

You can flat him here, since he's checked all the way, and see what he does on the river- this may be your chance to get your read on how he plays, what his preflop calling range is like, and what he does when he hits. And you may be able to get that information without stacking. I'd be very surprised if he does check again though, he's almost guaranteed to lead the river.

Hand #2 is a bit horrible- preflop is fine IMO, good sized raise to take hold of the pot from a guy who would have position if he calls- you've represented a huge hand. Definitely c-bet the flop, carry on representing the big pair- the fact he flats you is really bad news so from here I'm done with the hand. Could easily have TT/77 here or one of the overpairs, in which case you're miles behind or perhaps drawing dead. Sometimes you just have to say you took your shot at it and it didn't come off- don't compound it by chucking the rest of your stack away for nothing.

He *could* be floating you here with a weaker hand, and may fold to the bet- but that's very risky. Just give it up.

CLIOKID

I occassionally check back the turn in hand 1.

Getting 3 streets of value out of Jx isn't easy so I'd be happy to just get value out of flop and river if I'm ahead and limit any damage if he does hold the 8.

Would depend on who I'm up against though. Betting isn't bad but I think checking it back on occassion can be ok too.

DOHHHHHHH

Hand 1

I'd be getting it in on hand one. He could have turned a flush draw to go with his top pair and decided that's enough for him to go with.

910dd also. Theres not many 8's he can have, pok 2's is possible, but I think it's much more likely to be something like JK of diamonds - that's what I'll go with.

But I get stacked alot, due to an inability to fold.

I'd also be opening 4x in early position at this level, and tighten up the range of hands I play utg and utg +1, you can play wider from the cut off/button and open 3x

Hand 2

I think you played it well, sizing is fine, I'd make it 5.20 on the flop, no real difference but it just "looks stronger".

Check the turn, hope he checks behind with his pocket jacks, bink an ace or a king 13% of the time then shove the river !!

LOL_RAISE

fold hand1, when he calls the flop he can have Jx, 8x, straight draws but when he raises the turn its almost always always > 1pair.

hand2: generally i find they have TT/JJ/QQ/AQ/AK when pretty tight players cold call 3bets, i would cbet quite a bit smaller on the flop though ~£3 its a 3way pot so super bloated we dont need to bet big to get out stacks in and its  not as if they are folding Tx to halfpot but not to £3

offshoot

In Response to Re: NL 20, 2 hands:

Hand 1 I'd b e g etting it in on hand on e. H e could hav e turn ed a flush draw to go with his top pair and d ecid ed that's  enough for him to go with. 910dd also. Th er es not many 8's h e can hav e, pok 2's is possibl e, but I think it's much mor e lik ely to b e som ething lik e JK of diamonds - that's what I'll go with. But I g et stack ed alot, du e to an inability to fold. I'd also b e op ening 4x in  early position at this l ev el, and tight en up th e rang e of hands I play utg and utg +1, you can play wid er from th e cut off/button and op en 3x Hand 2 I think you play ed it w ell, sizing is fin e, I'd mak e it 5.20 on th e flop, no r eal diff er enc e but it just "looks strong er". Ch eck th e turn, hop e h e ch ecks b ehind with his pock et jacks, bink an ac e or a king 13% of th e tim e th en shov e th e riv er !!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

hand 1 i tihnk the chance of him raising the turn after picking up more outs is very slim.

DOHHHHHHH

Really?? 

I must be wayyyyyy too loose.

What wud u do with the aces in hand 1 offshoot?

offshoot

i think its probably a fold.

DOHHHHHHH

Did either of these hands go to showdown JC? What happened.....

yb

hand 1 I'd call turn and evaluate river as we have position.

hand 2 I'd cbet smaller if I was going to bet, not sure if I would though 3 handed.

JohnConnor

Thanks for all the advice on this one guys, really helpful.

Hand 1 I jammed and got snapped off by 8-9. Hand 2 I jammed the turn and got snapped off by KK.

So I spewed off my stack both times, but having thought about it and read the responses I think I can at least save a bit of cash in these spots in future, so thanks again guys. I'll no doubt be posting a few more cash hands from NL20 soon.

JC