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Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic

 

354844691

Looks to me like the guy making the bet on the river is just taking a stab at the pot.

I know 100% that the othr player in the hand has either the jack or queen of hearts, and will fold to a raise.

Is this a good spot to spin my hand into a bluff and take the pot down?

Rottie should also know that stanley probably has him beat, and my bet tells him he's probably beat in 2 spots, so even if he thinks I'm at it, with Stanley left to act behind, he's more likely to fold?

Thoughts?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
nozz3r Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £21.72
Ultracat Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £13.12
  Your hole cards
  • 6
  • 6
     
1rottie1 Call  £0.30 £0.75 £41.02
stanley644 Raise  £1.20 £1.95 £28.80
DOHHHHHHH Call  £1.20 £3.15 £62.56
beamer1968 Fold     
nozz3r Fold     
Ultracat Call  £0.90 £4.05 £12.22
1rottie1 Call  £0.90 £4.95 £40.12
Flop
   
  • 4
  • 10
  • A
     
Ultracat Check     
1rottie1 Check     
stanley644 Check     
DOHHHHHHH Check     
Turn
   
  • 8
     
Ultracat Check     
1rottie1 Check     
stanley644 Check     
DOHHHHHHH Check     
River
   
  • K
     
Ultracat Check     
1rottie1 Bet  £2.48 £7.43 £37.64
stanley644 Call  £2.48 £9.91 £26.32
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £9.30

 

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Comments

  • FlashFlushFlashFlush
    edited March 2011
    I wouldn't, but I'm a nit!

     At the end of the day you have £1.20 invested and your now betting £9.30 to make a £8.70 profit. I know the name of one of those and he is likely to snap you off with the Jh here.
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  • BigBlusterBigBluster
    edited March 2011
    Either a great move which takes down the pot or a terrible one on a risk/reward basis.
    I'd have just let it go and written off the £1.20. But I'm a hopeless cash player!


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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited March 2011
    your representing the nuts, I would call some  players with alot of hearts here (in villians seat), If i think they would normaly bet the turn with the king of hearts, something to think about.
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  • leon621leon621
    edited March 2011
    your actually against 3 other players here and you dont know if ultracat has checked the nuts being almost certain of a big raise against 3 players in a better possition here. For me its a certain fold if i have my head on, but i do try these here and there and lose.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited March 2011
    Yeah I'm not a big fan of the river bluff, dont get me wrong stands a good chancxe to get through.  I dont, just because in my experience it hasnt turned out to be profitable.  Its great higher level thinking, its just disatrous if timed wrong.
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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited March 2011
    i think this is a bad spot to bluff what are you repping? two hands might fold the 7 and 9, you never have a king and wouldnt raise the queen or jack, if rottie has air and stan has 7 or nine and he is not thinking then you have half a chance to get it through, if that makes any sense
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited March 2011
    Will they fold J or 9 h to the river 3 bet is the thing.....  I know I find it hard, as you have to put the guy leading out as being stromg, yet the added strength of the re raise on that board, so many hands shrink.  Its tricky, with the passive flop and turn play, its hard to put anyone on a big heart.

    I definately dont do it, but its totally worth having the ability to do it.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2011
    I give pretty solid reads on 1 player in-particular in the notes above the hand......

    I know what he's got, and I know he isn't calling with it.

    If I give you that read, in black and white, it's concrete, you can't doubt it when trying to interpret the situation...........

    I take the point about not betting the turn though. Against really good players they will pick up on it, and realise I never have the nuts here.

    But even still, the guy is never calling here without the nuts, he's prob not evem thinking about what I might have when I raise, he's looking at his own cards, see's he hasn't got the nuts, and therefore will fold.

    The guy who made the initial bet is the 1 I'm concerned about - but again, having Stanley behind him, on top of my raise, must make him more inclined to fold anything but the nuts ?


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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???:
    I giv e pr etty solid r eads on 1 play er in-particular in th e not es abov e th e hand...... I know what h e's got, and I know h e isn't calling with it. If I giv e you that r ead, in black and whit e, it's concr et e, you can't doubt it wh en trying to int erpr et th e situation........... I tak e th e point about not b etting th e turn though. Against r eally good play ers th e y will pick up on it, and r ealis e I n ev er hav e th e nuts h er e. But  ev en still, th e guy is n ev er calling h er e without th e nuts, h e's prob not  ev em thinking about what I might hav e wh en I rais e, h e's looking at his own cards, s e e's h e hasn't got th e nuts, and th er efor e will fold. Th e guy who mad e th e initial b et is th e 1 I'm conc ern ed about - but again, having Stanl ey b ehind him, on top of my rais e, must mak e him mor e inclin ed to fold anything but th e nuts ?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
     

    so if its your read he absolutly dosnt have it and will never ever call (impossible btw) then this post belongs in brags, beats and varience cause its a blatent brag on your river bluffing prowess
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2011
    It isn't impossible with this villain. I've got tonnes of hands with him. 

    And if you read the end of the post, you'll see it's the initial bettor I am worried about.

    I give you the read so that you can help me interpret the situation from my P.O.V as closely as possible. I don't give the read so that you can question it.

    Stanley is folding - FACT....

    Therefore....is raising as a bluff a good option or not?

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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited March 2011
    true,
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???:
    It isn't impossibl e with this villain. I'v e got tonn es of hands with him.  And if you r ead th e  end of th e post, you'll s e e it's th e initial b ettor I am worri ed about. I giv e you th e r ead so that you can h elp m e int erpr et th e situation from my P.O.V as clos ely as possibl e. I don't giv e th e r ead so that you can qu estion it. Stanl ey is folding - FACT.... Th er efor e....is raising as a bluff a good option or not?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    you seem to think it is
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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited March 2011
    i just dont know how your so certain that he will fold a jack or a queen because you never have a king here EVER and even a very bad player can work that out imo
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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???:
    It isn't impossibl e with this villain. I'v e got tonn es of hands with him.  And if you r ead th e  end of th e post, you'll s e e it's th e initial b ettor I am worri ed about. I giv e you th e r ead so that you can h elp m e int erpr et th e situation from my P.O.V as clos ely as possibl e. I don't giv e th e r ead so that you can qu estion it. Stanl ey is folding - FACT.... Th er efor e....is raising as a bluff a good option or not?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Brunson said its a good move so it must be
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited March 2011
    I've said in my reply its a blatant brag, nothing else.
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???:
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff??? : Brunson said its a good move so it must be
    Posted by N1CK
    lol, was thinking the same think, you talking about a hand he decribes in super system right?
    read it years ago can remember something similar :)

    lol I remember Brunson saying it wasnt a brag at the end also, I belived him  :)
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2011
    How can it be a brag you don't even know the outcome????

    Canny believe you continue to question my read. How many times.

    Go play him and find out for yourself. Pointless giving the read in the first place if you're not gonna believe me.
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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???:
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff??? : lol, was thinking the same think, you talking about a hand he decribes in super system right? read it years ago can remember something similar :) lol I remember Brunson saying it wasnt a brag at the end also, I belived him  :)
    Posted by TWRAMYEP
    yeah it was a blatant Brunson brag but i dont think he put the guy on 2nd nuts tho lol
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2011
    I will have a 100 quid side bet with anyone, that if this hand gets shown on TV, Stanley has either the Jack or the Queen of hearts.

    Any takers?
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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Good spot to turn my hand into a bluff???:
    I will hav e a 100 quid sid e b et with anyon e, that if this hand g ets shown on TV, Stanl ey has  eith er th e Jack or th e Qu e en of h earts. Any tak ers?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    so he obviously folded then, did he tell you he had a jack or queen by any chance?
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN
    edited March 2011
    He could have set? ;) lol hes gotta have JJ with heart imo
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited March 2011
    I wont take the bet but I think your right with the Jh, Q is pushing it though :p
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2011

    He folded yes.

    I've said all along, this was never in doubt, barring a mis-click.

    I've never spoken to him. 

    The worry was the initial bettor.

    ----------------------------------------

    Y do you think it's a brag? - So many times I get told to avoid being results orientated, I put an interesting spot in the clinic, something I would never normally do, with reads/thought process, and you guys keep going on about the flaming result!!!

    Sigh.

    Maybe someone reading this who has played the villain can comment. 

    I put plenty of beats in A51, and plenty of brags in bbv - go look.

    I put this here for strategy advice/opinions.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    You have helped me realise my river bet isn't believable as I checked the turn, so I guess the thread has sered some useful purpose, ty for that.


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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited March 2011
    Dohhh out of interest what do you think is the worse hand he calls the first bet on the end with?
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited March 2011
    I apoligize perhaps if I misinterpretated your post I may have confused the two villians you wrote about,

    just keeping you on your toes :)
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2011
    Probably the 9 of hearts........

    He's opened 4x pre flop I don't think he does this with anything but 99+ anyway........it's normally a min raise.

    He could have 77 with a heart I guess if hes abit tilted  ;)
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  • CLIOKIDCLIOKID
    edited March 2011
    Personally not a huge fan of it.

    We can't have any solid idea that Rottie doesn't have the goods. Or are we sure of their ability to fold the Qh or Jh if thats what they hold.

    Stan as you say is almost an irrelevance as to whether the move works. as you say as it's soooo unlikely he is flatting river then calling a re-raise behind.

    But I don't think we have good enough info on Rottie to make this play.


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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2011
    SICK!

    Queen of hearts!

    I knew it!!!

    Can't believe TK and JH are doubting my read like u guys! I said it in my opening post.

    100% he has the J/Q of hearts.

    100% he folds it!!!

    THOUSANDS OF HANDS WITH HIM FFS!!!

    GOOOOOOOOO DOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN
    edited April 2011
    Dohhh for president ;) lol be funny if he snapped u off here
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