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whats the big deal with AK

delaney09delaney09
edited April 2011 in Poker Chat
coz it is !!! :)
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  • delaney09delaney09
    edited April 2011
    says it in the title why time after time with X amount of chips simply choose to shove with AK i perosnally don't understand why it is classed as such a big hand.


    Edited OP: made me come across like a complete tool i was really just looking for why people seem to play it so big and why it is classed as such a big hand, seeing as it is simply 1 A and 1 K nothing other than that ?
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  • loonytoonsloonytoons
    edited April 2011
    In Response to whats the big deal with AK:
    says it in the title why time after time with 25-30bb behind them do people just shove with AK like its a monster
    Posted by delaney09
     I'd shove with 100 wiiiiiii.
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  • delaney09delaney09
    edited April 2011
    lol ahh im on life tilt i just had AA in the open win the hand im on about 8k and probably cruise in to the cash.... blinds were 75/150 guy UTG limps im UTG+1 i raise to 750 guy on the btn insta jams something like 3500 i have 4500 so it folds all round to me he has AK i put it into a hold'em calculator with the suits and every it comes out that im a 92.34% favourite pre and on the flop still an 82% favourite lol

    typing everything into the calculator has tilted me even more then the hand it self.. i have no idea what my raise pre says to him must think i have 23o or something
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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    In Response to whats the big deal with AK :  I'd shove with 100 wiiiiiii.
    Posted by loonytoons
    lol - can't argue with that!

    Certainly, if you're playing <50bbs, you should always be prepared to put all your chips across the line with AK.
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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    lol ahh im on life tilt i just had AA in the open win the hand im on about 8k and probably cruise in to the cash.... blinds were 75/150 guy UTG limps im UTG+1 i raise to 750 guy on the btn insta jams something like 3500 i have 4500 so it folds all round to me he has AK i put it into a hold'em calculator with the suits and every it comes out that im a 92.34% favourite pre and on the flop still an 82% favourite lol typing everything into the calculator has tilted me even more then the hand it self.. i have no idea what my raise pre says to him must think i have 23o or something
    Posted by delaney09
    He doesn't know you have AA!!!  Against your range, AK plays very well and has solid equity.

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  • ybyb
    edited April 2011
    the button played it fine.

    AK is huuuuuge
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited April 2011
    Del.....there is a small thread on AK...

    Here

    Enjoy :)

    *edit....just seen who  the last poster in the thread was :)))
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  • delaney09delaney09
    edited April 2011
    ty alan i'll have a read now

    was really just looking to why AK must always equal a shove or re raise no matter how many chips because after all it is nothing but 2 high cards why is it classed as such a big hand ?
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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    ty alan i'll have a read now was really just looking to why AK must always equal a shove or re raise no matter how many chips because after all it is nothing but 2 high cards why is it classed as such a big hand ?
    Posted by delaney09
    What hands are you raising with UTG+1?  88+?  ATs+?  KQs?  Maybe JTs?

    So, how does AK play against that range?


    Hold'em Simulation ? 
    2,410,924,032 trials (Exhaustive)
    HandEquityWinsTies
    AK56.75%1,226,696,684282,858,660
    88-AA, AT-AK, JTs, KQs43.25%901,368,688282,858,660
    When you factor in fold equity, AK becomes an even stronger favourite!

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  • AcidMan27AcidMan27
    edited April 2011
    ^^This^^

    If you know you're up against A/A or K/K then you'd think twice about shoving. Seeing as you don't know then you should be getting it all in.
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  • MP33MP33
    edited April 2011
    plus its harder to play if your  raising as when you miss on flop ( esp low flops)  , which you normaly will  your opponent could easily put you on AK, AQ  and shove on you
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP
    edited April 2011
    give me AK every hand in a vacuum and Id be a millionare in a day or two.
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  • ybyb
    edited April 2011
    in fact in James' example AK is an even bigger favourite even without accounting for fold equity because of the card removal effect.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited April 2011

    If you can force the Villain to fold 50% of the time by jamming with A-K - & Villain will fold a lot of hands, almost all hands from 9-9 down (stack dependant) - then the odds for A-K to win become about 75%.

    What's not to like?

    A pig of a hand early doors in Tourneys, but late on, it's a beaut, because it is the easiest hand in poker to play.
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  • ybyb
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    If you can force the Villain to fold 50% of the time by jamming with A-K - & Villain will fold a lot of hands, almost all hands from 9-9 down (stack dependant) - then the odds for A-K to win become about 75%. What's not to like? A pig of a hand early doors in Tourneys, but late on, it's a beaut, because it is the easiest hand in poker to play.
    Posted by Tikay10
    AK is great whenever you get it imo.
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  • dtm75dtm75
    edited April 2011
    Quick related question...

    Scenario

    Nr MTT Main Event bubble, sat with AK in the BB (with 22BB) and small stack shoves from early position (10BB), big stack (50BBish) smooths from the button (does this imply massive massive strength KK or AA) trying to draw in either of the blinds...i.e. me?

    No real table dynamics, been on table for less than one orbit.

    Is this an insta all-in over the top?
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  • billybootsbillyboots
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    Quick related question... Scenario Nr MTT Main Event bubble, sat with AK in the BB (with 22BB) and small stack shoves from early position (10BB), big stack (50BBish) smooths from the button (does this imply massive massive strength KK or AA) trying to draw in either of the blinds...i.e. me? No real table dynamics, been on table for less than one orbit. Is this an insta all-in over the top?
    Posted by dtm75
    I defo would do.............depends if you want to take the tourny down or just cash........if you win the hand there n then, you will be chip leader and massive fav............but I understand / sympathise with the dilemma and not always that easy to make that kind of call in such a hugh event.....but yes , shove it all-in, imho .
     
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  • delaney09delaney09
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    Quick related question... Scenario Nr MTT Main Event bubble, sat with AK in the BB (with 22BB) and small stack shoves from early position (10BB), big stack (50BBish) smooths from the button (does this imply massive massive strength KK or AA) trying to draw in either of the blinds...i.e. me? No real table dynamics, been on table for less than one orbit. Is this an insta all-in over the top?
    Posted by dtm75
    I'd fold cause if the guy whos flatted the 10bb is definitely in most positions going to call the extra 12 bb's with any sort of pair definitely AA-KK if he has the blinds covered comfortably, maybe thats where i go wrong but the shove then the flat your going to be getting it in 3 ways and more than likely be being up against 2 pp's with which one could be AA then really your hoping for the miracle trip kings or a straight u can easily find a better position to get them in with instead of risking your tournament in a 3 way pot with just AK but thats my point of view... but thats because i dont have a high perspective of AK like most even if you hit top pair on an A810 flop you can still be a mile behind
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  • billybootsbillyboots
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK : I'd fold cause if the guy whos flatted the 10bb is definitely in most positions going to call the extra 12 bb's with any sort of pair definitely AA-KK if he has the blinds covered comfortably, maybe thats where i go wrong but the shove then the flat your going to be getting it in 3 ways and more than likely be being up against 2 pp's with which one could be AA then really your hoping for the miracle trip kings or a straight u can easily find a better position to get them in with instead of risking your tournament in a 3 way pot with just AK but thats my point of view... but thats because i dont have a high perspective of AK like most even if you hit top pair on an A810 flop you can still be a mile behind
    Posted by delaney09
    My concern here....is that as it's bubble time ie: v. deep into the event.....it's going to be a shove fest with ppl stealing blinds, and if you are going to be passive  and fold AK when you are the bb,......you will be seriously short stacked in no time. You need to bite the bullet and pray that it gets thru.
    Chances of getting another premium hand quickly enough for you to survive is a massive gamble imo,  so that's why i shove all-in now...........would love some other opinions on this :)- 
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK : lol - can't argue with that! Certainly, if you're playing <50bbs, you should always be prepared to put all your chips across the line with AK.
    Posted by J-Hartigan
    i agree,the thing that i cant understand is if you push for a semi bluff on a dry board with say,second pair and they call all their chips with ak because they think its the nuts....

    dave
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  • BigBlusterBigBluster
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK : lol - can't argue with that! Certainly, if you're playing <50bbs, you should always be prepared to put all your chips across the line with AK.
    Posted by J-Hartigan
    Why? If you're able to dominate the table and maneouvre at your convenience, why risk it on a coin flip?

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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited April 2011
    See Tikay's earlier post.  If you factor in fold equity, you're significantly better than 50/50.

    Also, what's wrong with flipping?  It's tournament poker, innit...  So, in the words of the Bullseye studio audience, GAMBLE!!!
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  • dtm75dtm75
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: whats the big deal with AK:
    See Tikay's earlier post.  If you factor in fold equity, you're significantly better than 50/50. Also, what's wrong with flipping?  It's tournament poker, innit...  So, in the words of the Bullseye studio audience, GAMBLE!!!
    Posted by J-Hartigan
    James, did you have a view on my post, with the all-in (10BB), smooth call (big stack) and me sat in the BB with AK? 

    Is this the one time where AK late in a tourney where you need to be über wary? Or just get in there?

    Thanks, Dan
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  • delaney09delaney09
    edited April 2011
    so last night decided to have a night off from sky and play a 6300 runner tourney i had AK once the whole time admittedly... i did go all in after the action folding round to me as i had a set my self a tight rock-ish image on the table the guy next to act happened to wake up with QQ i'll admit i binked an A on the river which is not necessary right now but i didnt feel comfortable shoving with it but knew that some way or another if i put in a raise im going to end up getting it in anyways.

    but as shown in this thread everyone has different opinions on AK and how they play it which is what i was trying to get how many people go all the way with AK and how many literally just see it how i do 9/10 just A high with a strong kicker

    thanks for everyone posting in here lots of different and similar opinions which is good ofc as everyone has different ways of playing certain hands

    needless to say i ended 52nd out of the 6300 went out to yep you guessed it AK lol
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