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Bad call?/Cooler (Railbird not helping)
Playing $1.5/3, 6 max been sat less than 50 hands.
Wasnt playing that great and I think the table knew it. Started with $450, lost a bit, bluff shoved the turn, hit a 10 outer went up to about $630 (A10o vs 77 - JQ24....A). Opponent made a good call, became very hostile after losing, didnt reload, assume was last bullet.
Maybe ten hands later I have AKh in the SB. No strong reads yet, pegged types but not really what people are capabable of post flop.
UTG + 2 limps, button folds, I make it $14, limper calls. All this while plus the past 10 or so hands the 7's guy is railing non stop, being really abusive and threatening.
Flop comes 6h2hKc. A pretty great flop for me. Opponent is sat with around $375 so am hoping to get it all. I bet $17.5 into $29.5. Guy calls. Am not really sure what he has at this point, anything from two paint hearts to 4's through 9's.
6h2hKc As
Hand gets stronger top 2, but still the redraw to the SCN flush. I bet £48 into $60, hoping that if he had something to call with on the flop, he still has at the turn. He makes it £179 to go, leaving himself, just less than that back. Still, this rail bird is going on and on.... I click time just to think it through, as I'm not calling, but putting him in or folding, either or. The second the opponent raises me the railbird goes into hystrerics saying how I'm an idiot and got caught, am sure you know the type.
Got to admit it got under my skin and thought process so quicker than I should have I put the guy in, he insta calls, having flopped a set of 6's, river blanks.
Railbird loves it, I sitout as I'm so angry, not at opponent, he plays his hand great, but at railbird. Cant decide if it was the abuse that made me call or strength of hand. I most likely call anyway, but the way the hand was played i can put my opponent on a set, given the timid limp/call pre.
But that bloomin' railbird did not help. Grrrrrrr.
Wasnt playing that great and I think the table knew it. Started with $450, lost a bit, bluff shoved the turn, hit a 10 outer went up to about $630 (A10o vs 77 - JQ24....A). Opponent made a good call, became very hostile after losing, didnt reload, assume was last bullet.
Maybe ten hands later I have AKh in the SB. No strong reads yet, pegged types but not really what people are capabable of post flop.
UTG + 2 limps, button folds, I make it $14, limper calls. All this while plus the past 10 or so hands the 7's guy is railing non stop, being really abusive and threatening.
Flop comes 6h2hKc. A pretty great flop for me. Opponent is sat with around $375 so am hoping to get it all. I bet $17.5 into $29.5. Guy calls. Am not really sure what he has at this point, anything from two paint hearts to 4's through 9's.
6h2hKc As
Hand gets stronger top 2, but still the redraw to the SCN flush. I bet £48 into $60, hoping that if he had something to call with on the flop, he still has at the turn. He makes it £179 to go, leaving himself, just less than that back. Still, this rail bird is going on and on.... I click time just to think it through, as I'm not calling, but putting him in or folding, either or. The second the opponent raises me the railbird goes into hystrerics saying how I'm an idiot and got caught, am sure you know the type.
Got to admit it got under my skin and thought process so quicker than I should have I put the guy in, he insta calls, having flopped a set of 6's, river blanks.
Railbird loves it, I sitout as I'm so angry, not at opponent, he plays his hand great, but at railbird. Cant decide if it was the abuse that made me call or strength of hand. I most likely call anyway, but the way the hand was played i can put my opponent on a set, given the timid limp/call pre.
But that bloomin' railbird did not help. Grrrrrrr.
Comments
wat
Wat, what bud?
I'm hoping that he has any hand to get seriously involved with. I lead out to try and look weaker than I am. Hope he plays back at me or at least has something to call, TPTK + 4 to nut flush I'm pretty happy to get as much in on the flop as I can.
As I've already said I'm not a big fan of check raising so leading through the streets, or perhaps check raising turn is my preffered play. If a heart does fall its likely to stop action, so was truly hoping the action would begin strongly on the flop, so if I am going to get it all this would be the course I would take.
i dont know how making a standard c-bet makes you look weaker
I know its easy to say that in hindsight bud, but really? Given that you're crushing a strong portion of the turn re raisers range there, plus there's a small chance your holding the same hand - your opponent not having the redraw to the nut flush. How often is folding top two + 4 to nut flush on an unco-ordianted board going to be the right play there??
Just my opinion, but people expect the c-bet much of the time, therefore its mainly dis-regarded or not as scary or hand defining as it should be. Mostly (again just my opinion) just juices up the pot and stimulates action on later streets. Dont get my wrong, a portion of players cut their losses and move on to next hand, but an equally profitable portion of players see it as weakness and get creative.
the 'wat' was basically ...we are 130bb+ deep you say you want to be able to get as much money as possible in the middle....and then you go ahead and bet slightly above halfpot. the difference between your bet and a pot bet might only look like $13 but it massively affects what the final pot size will be since there are 2 more streets to play in which the betsize will be related to the size of the pot. bigger pot = bigger bet = more monies
Way to attack a typo, classy
Given my image at that time at the table I was going to get little credit in the hand. I'd been leading out alot (I usually do), the bet size was designed to induce a raise on the flop or turn.
But perhaps somewhere around $20 - 22 may have been better
Nick, you really dont know a thing about me or the nature of my game. You insinuate many things on pretty much every thread I put up.
This is a pretty standard hand, top 2 with 4 to the nut flush against a hidden set. Commenting that I should play lower and get better really has no real place.
But in answer to your question I only play for stakes that I find meaningful, then increase on par with BR. I can reload from my staple income if needs be, but playing lower is not beneficial to my game as I dont take it as seriously as I ought to and I like to know the people I'm sat with have a good level of understanding.
As I have said many times I'm not really an online player anymore. I probably rely to much on my live skillset. I often dont give online opponents as much credit as I should and admittidly can be kind of spewy, which is a patience issue.
As I have also said many times I give huge respect to people who win consistently online, I cant do it. I do play mainly recreationally now, but there was a time when I was consistently playing $5/10 with a reasonable 5 figure BR. Which I did burn.
But understand the poker world does not begin and end with skypoker, nor online. Though online is pretty integral. Not being successful online does not neccessarily infer that a person is a bad player. Many very successful players refuse to play online, infact many online players hate playing live.
I do have many flaws in my online game, this I have realised since picking apart my HH and posting more in here. You may be very successful online Nick, I havent checked, If you are thats great. But dont assume that people you dont even know/met/played against need to drop and get better, especially off the back of a hand like this.
i totally disagree, you admit that your a losing player online so if you cant beat the levels your playing its pretty bad playing them, there are a ton of very good players at nl50c who grind out for a living and have a very good understanding of the game, i wasn't trying to insult you i was suggesting that you drop down to that level and plug the leaks in your game and put it into practise over a big sample of hands(its cheaper to learn at nl50c than nl300 then when your games better try higher
also if you have no patience online how the hell do you cope live???? your making out this hand is a cooler and i disagree obviously it depends on the villain if hes a complete spew monkey then yeah its a cooler
you say you want to play players with a good understanding of the game so when he pops you on the turn on that board are you putting him on a complete air-ball then?
I think you should play some cash on sky then post some hands so we can see them properly...........
limp call a raise
smooth call a K hi flop
then raise when the card that fills up your range drops and you fire a second barrell.
And as your not a 'reg' u are not being bluffed here often.
I dont put the opponent on air at all either. I do think there is a reasonable probability he holds AQ/AK or even 10J/Q hearts (unlikely but there are people who will take that bet on there). I said in the OP that I had played less than 50 hands at this table, so no solid reads. Yes, a set is a concern, but then a portion would still play AQ this way here. In my mind it was a toss up between a set or a limped hand like A2/6 for the inferior two pair. But either way do you still believe that laying down top 2 with 4 to the nut flush is profitable over time?
But either way do the math: guy raises me $131 bringing pot up to $300ish. I have to call $131 into $300 so I only need to be hitting the 26-32% range which I am with the 13 outs to make flush of end up with a bigger fullhouse (28%) unless he's holding AA/KK (then 19% with naked flush). But factor in the implied odds, likelyhood of folding river then just flatting the turn makes no sense. Pot would stand at around $430 going to the river, so if it bricks I'm not check folding a pot with $610 in (by the time he pushes) for $175 , holding top two on a non str non flush board, as it just isnt a profitable fold longterm.
I'm sorry If I came across as rude though, the old poker ego i guess
I dont know how to answer your comment about getting board live, it just never happens. I'm always watching and trying to come across as social (negranue/Ramanello - esque). I think it is the lack of any tactile experience. I like to watch other people play, chip handle and constantly assess the action. I just dont get the same buzz or focus online. I've tried 6/4/2 tabling, Tournament/cash mixing. It just hasnt held the same appeal for me as it did a few years ago. I find it much easier to predict how people will react live, online it just sems like your groping in the dark at times.
I have run very badly for quite some time. Not making ridiculous excuses. But when someone calls you down with small pocket pairs over multiple streets and binks a set over and over and over it does warp your confidence in your game and software. (Perhaps I am in part to blame for these occurences as I do try and sit 350BB deep and propagate a loose image to get paid overall, so cant really hold it against people calling down light) But my game has definately been altered by my run, as I have been finding it hard to play online with confidence.
I think I really have arrived at the point where I only wish to play online recreationally. If it was going to happen for me online then it already would have is the way I see it. I burnt my real BR sept 08, it had reached $23,000 at FT. Maybe it still effects me more than I realise. I turned $400 into $2700 at PS over 2 days this week. Then lost most of it in 3 big pots where i was between 90-95% going to the river (A10 vs AK A1024K - 10J vs KK 1010J2K - AA vs QQ 410102Q) Then massive tilt. But I guess I was playing out of BR so I open myself up for this.
I know this has got lengthy and I apologise. But I do sincerely have alot of respect for people who make a living online.
Yes I agree, the limp/call would lean to the small pocket pair. I think another of my online flaws is I get tied up in the idea of the image I'm trying to propagate, so that when you do get popped there you have to ask multiple questions as to why they are doing it.
Even with the download I find sky really laggy, have spoken to others and they have the same opinion. If I deposit £600 and play two bullets at MC300 will that appease?
calling 131 into 300 means we need to have 31% equity to breakeven assuming no further action
our hand has 29.5% equity vs a range of 22 and 66 only and we have $175 behind
even if he hero folds when we hit out flush and only stacks off when we hit our A or K we still make money
which means that calling turn to boat/flush up is +ev and fold when we miss
you gave all the working out as to that calling turn is ok but then said you dont want to c/f because your absolute hand strength his high yet your relative hand strength is low
I varied the % from 29.5 to 26 - 32% as the pot sizing wasnt exact.
Am I really so far off base here? Are you gentlemen seriously implying that you fold top two + 4 to nut flush at the turn here consistently? Or that you call turn fold river?
You know the outcome so being critical is easy, but you are priced to improve your hand at the turn even believing your opponent holds a low set.
Hand on my heart I dont think I ever play this hand differently, but if you really think this is such an easy hand to get away from at the turn or the river then I guess there are huge leaks in my game.
I dont think many people are getting away from the hand at the turn or especially the river. Say the river bricks a off suit 7 your seeing a board of
26KA7 (no flush) holding AK getting 4/1 at $179 into $610 (after his allin). This is never going to be an easy fold on the river, so why put yourself in a situation where your having to make the difficult call? Surely the prefferred play is to get it in on the turn, surely your more likely to be up against the inferior A far more often than the set, but even against the set you have enough equity in the hand to be getting it in at the turn?
I dont think this is a board you should too often be playing to scared on. I hear what you guys are saying, but without KNOWING your opponent has flopped the set (hell, even with the low set) is folding the turn going to be that profitable overall? Folding at the first sign of resistance?
I dont want you to think I'm not listening to your input, I am. I'm listening pretty hard. But I have to put my thoughts out there too. If there is this huge blindspot it'll make it easier for you to pinpoint.
But even if I put him a set I STILL WOULDNT FOLD THE TURN, and i dont want to play OOP facing that bet, because I dont believe i'll fold the river anyway.
I really do understand why you say fold, your only being raised by a small range of hands there at the turn.. But you are crushing many of the hands that may raise you when the A hits, plus you do have the priced to redraw.
Thankyou for all your input, seriously.