KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help!

Dudeskin8

Similar to the AA hand I posted a little while back but this time it's a lot earlier in the tourney. No reads on Villain at all.

Dudeskin8	Small blind		10.00	10.00	5550.00
MRSSMITH37	Big blind		20.00	30.00	4700.00
	Your hole cards	K K
wiganway	Fold
joypaula11	Call		20.00	50.00	9400.00
greedy83	Call		20.00	70.00	9070.00
Vil	Call		20.00	90.00	5745.00
Dudeskin8	Raise		120.00	210.00	5430.00
MRSSMITH37	Call		110.00	320.00	4590.00
joypaula11	Fold
greedy83	Fold
Vil	Call		110.00	430.00	5635.00
Flop
		6 4 5
Dudeskin8	Bet		340.00	770.00	5090.00
MRSSMITH37	Fold
Vil	Raise		895.00	1665.00	4740.00
Dudeskin8

grantorino

This deep I just fold, especially against a guy who limpcalled

N1CK

raise bigger pre alot bigger, frazer says so and i agree with him, im surprised this didnt go 5 handed to the flop

TommyD

You've given yourself masses of problems by not raising bigger.  The good thing about over betting here is more often than not someone will think it's a squeeze light and come along.  I'd make this at least 200, probably more.

As played either call to reassess on the turn or small raise/fold readless.  Against some players you'll want to get them in but you'll have to know them.

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help!:

As played either call to reassess on the turn or small raise/fold readless.
Posted by TommyD

i think this is probably the worst option

wildthing1

personally i would just jam a big hand likes kk so early in a tourney, makes the decision easy for you than playing a multiway pot with alot of limpers. if they want to come along for ride gl to them lol

Dudeskin8

Yh the raise pre is too small, very annoyed with myself in that respect as I usually raise too much in these spots. Well I ended up flatting as a straight fold on flop would have killed me.

Flop
		6 4 5
Dudeskin8	Bet		340.00	770.00	5090.00
MRSSMITH37	Fold
Nutz66	Raise		895.00	1665.00	4740.00
Dudeskin8	Call		555.00	2220.00	4535.00
Turn
		10
Dudeskin8	Check
Nutz66	Bet		1110.00	3330.00	3630.00
Dudeskin8

LOL_RAISE

id give up on turn

TommyD

In Response to Re: KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help!:

In Response to Re: KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help! : i think this is probably the worst option
Posted by LOL_RAISE

In what way?  We are readless.  Villain might be a fellow who wants to raise here with an overpair to the board but one we're still ahead of with our Kings.  We're pretty deep and if he comes over the top of our raise, even readless we should be pretty sure we're behind (there will always be exceptions).  A raise also slows down the man with a mid pocket pair without them folding.  Anyway, like I said in my original reply you can choose either of the two, I'm just adverse to spewing chips away calling through the streets as I am adverse to calling ahead on the flop and folding while still ahead on the turn.

grantorino

In Response to Re: KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help!:

In Response to Re: KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help! : In what way?  We are readless.  Villain might be a fellow who wants to raise here with an overpair to the board but one we're still ahead of with our Kings.  We're pretty deep and if he comes over the top of our raise, even readless we should be pretty sure we're behind (there will always be exceptions).  A raise also slows down the man with a mid pocket pair without them folding.  Anyway, like I said in my original reply you can choose either of the two, I'm just adverse to spewing chips away calling through the streets as I am adverse to calling ahead on the flop and folding while still ahead on the turn.
Posted by TommyD

Because we are readless we dont know how he reacts to a raise. Personally it wouldnt surprise me if a guy who limpcall pre then raise the flop with an overpair shoved over a flop 3bet. Also If he raised a draw here he is likely to get it in when we 3bet , which makes raise/fold pretty bad imo. If you 3bet flop it has to be with intention of getting it in here, otherwise you are kind of turning your hand into a bluff readless.

grantorino

In Response to Re: KK OOP raised on wet flop, Help!:

Yh the raise pre is too small, very annoyed with myself in that respect as I usually raise too much in these spots. Well I ended up flatting as a straight fold on flop would have killed me. Flop     6 4 5       Dudeskin8 Bet   340.00 770.00 5090.00 MRSSMITH37 Fold         Nutz66 Raise   895.00 1665.00 4740.00 Dudeskin8 Call   555.00 2220.00 4535.00 Turn     10       Dudeskin8 Check         Nutz66 Bet   1110.00 3330.00 3630.00 Dudeskin8
Posted by Dudeskin8

Raise pre is maybe a little too small , but its not really bad imo

\what was your plan when you flatted flop? Because you should have already decided how you were reacting to a card like this. Personally I fold

LOL_RAISE

what grantorino said.

good film also

Dudeskin8

Yep folded on turn.