Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo

Chompy_imo

Sky legend and occasional blogger Greg 'Hoggers' Hogg said he was thinking of starting a thread on minimum raising but I has beaten him to the punch innnit.
Min raising is WRONG, end of imo. It is a bad habit picked up mainly by online players and the standard on most sites would improve ten-fold if every player stopped doing it.
There is no hand at any stage of any tournament that warrants a min raise. So please stop. Thanks for listening...

PiAnOpLaYa

min re raise ok?

acebarry10

Yo Chompy

The question is, what does a min raise do? what it the point? I have to admit, when I have been min raised and have a decent hand (Have been known to do it without) I put in a nice strong re-raise, great to ask the question, get an answer back, then fold otherwise take them chips.

FlashFlush

Min raising is great when you have the stone cold nuts... Min raise flop... they will NOT fold either call or re-raise, smooth call the re-raise, check the turn they will ship it in as you look weak, hmm i think ill call.. good game, nice hand unlucky take care...

 P.S i never min-raise PF

unknown_username

dangerous ploy though Flash. Last week I broke the faith, I had a nameless person going all-in hand after hand. Then with me in SB and him in BB I get AA. I call (same as min-raise to me) knowng that he will go all-in, and he does so I pounce. He had 72 and hit hit hit. I went out. Hit 'em hard, make 'em pay to play is the only way.

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

dangerous ploy though Flash. Last week I broke the faith, I had a nameless person going all-in hand after hand. Then with me in SB and him in BB I get AA. I call (same as min-raise to me) knowng that he will go all-in, and he does so I pounce. He had 72 and hit hit hit. I went out. Hit 'em hard, make 'em pay to play is the only way.
Posted by elsadog

 No i mean if you flop the stone cold nuts, no danger there cos u cant be beaten .. I think  I once flopped the nuts in 1984.... and iwas only born in 87

PiAnOpLaYa

yer but i can remember getting it all in on the flopped nuts and losing to runner runner

PILLOWMAN

In Response to Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

Sky legend and occasional blogger Greg 'Hoggers' Hogg said he was thinking of starting a thread on minimum raising but I has beaten him to the punch innnit. Min raising is WRONG, end of imo. It is a bad habit picked up mainly by online players and the standard on most sites would improve ten-fold if every player stopped doing it. There is no hand at any stage of any tournament that warrants a min raise. So please stop. Thanks for listening...
Posted by Chompy_imo

do you get lots of players min raising into you chompy ? imo. 

scotty77

ok everyone folds and your are SB.  the BB is away.  what do you do

also at the late stages then min raising is a good tactic OTB plus I also think that versus certain villians (ie me cos I'm a calling station) min raising with a rivered st8/flush is a sure fire way to get paid.

Sky_Dave

Using dogmatic rules while playing poker is more wrong, imo

Rubes375

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

Min raising is great when you have the stone cold nuts... Min raise flop... they will NOT fold either call or re-raise, smooth call the re-raise, check the turn they will ship it in as you look weak, hmm i think ill call.. good game, nice hand unlucky take care...  P.S i never min-raise PF
Posted by FlashFlush

Would possibly disagree, assuming you have the stone cold nuts your thought process is how to get all thier chips. This is then dependent on three things, size of pot, sack sizes and villian (style/range/did he hit etc). It then becomes more of a mathmatical sum to work out what they will call, flop, turn and river to get all the chips, based on the three variables.

A min raise would likely (although not always) leave a larger bet on one of the other streets which may not get called (as players get better they wont shove with trash or top pair etc) and therefore you dont get all the chips.

This is just my view - not a fan of the minraise as a rule

GREGHOGG

Chompers, thanks for starting this thread m8

I personally rarely min raise. However, i can understand certain situations where this could be the right play preflop imo

1. If you are late on in a torney, and have AA or KK and are commiting the rest of your stack and/or your opponants stack to the pot... and are in late ish position.

OR

2. If you are late on in a tourney and you are a big stack, have postion with any 2 AND the blinds are weak (folding all the time)  Also you have to be able to fold to a reshove of course. If they flat call, a decent C bet could take it down. Never min raise a third of your stack and then fold to the reshove lol. Ive seen it happen!

However, essentially, i agree with Chompers, constant min raising acheives nothing. However, where i differ from my opinion with Chompers is that i believe the occasional min raise can be a good tool to confuse your opponants in certain rare situations and thats all i would use it for personally...

Let the debate continue...

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo :  No i mean if you flop the stone cold nuts, no danger there cos u cant be beaten .. I think  I once flopped the nuts in 1984.... and iwas only born in 87
Posted by FlashFlush

Lies, you flop the nuts every other hand:)

MereNovice

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

Using dogmatic rules while playing poker is more wrong, imo
Posted by Sky_Dave

Absolutely.

There are several situations where a min raise can be used successfully.

daveydavey

I use min raising when I have a read on my opponent. If they see min raising as strong/weak then use accordingly.

People might not always fold but that's not the point, if you min raise bluff and then lead the turn/river then your super strong looking min raise might get them to fold on a later street.

Each to their own..

J-Hartigan

Personally, I think there is NOTHING wrong with min raising in the later stages of a (well-structured) tournament when the blinds are big and the average stack is low...

1) Players with nothing (bar the ante) invested in the pot will still fold weak / mediocre hands.

2) Players in the blinds will be tempted to call with mediocre / average holdings.  Great!  Chances are you've got them beat - and you'll be in position for the rest of the hand.

3) If a player three-bets or shoves behind, you can get away from the hand relatively cheaply.

Ideally, I think betting 2.4x / 2.5x is better than a min raise, but I think the key is consistency.  I see so many players 4x with JJ and then min raise with AA, thinking they're "enticing" their opponents into the pot.  But everyone smells the trap a mile off and folds!

KnackersYa

My pet peev is the tiny bet into a big pot, e.g. a 30 raise into a pot of 1000 odd. Can I just say that THERE IS NO POINT DOING THIS. It's not value betting, it doesn't build the pot, all it does is make you look like a bloody numpty. If you want to raise, at least make it meaningful.

JingleMa

This is then dependent on three things, size of pot, SACK SIZES and villian Posted by Rubes375

Erm... think you're playing a different kind of poker there mate! 8- />

pod1

i agree with davey davey, a min raise can be used POST flop, with a good degree of success against the right player at the right time. it can be used to induce a bet from an aggressive player moping up blinds who is looking for weakness. on the other hand it can be used against a good tight player with a dangerous flop ie paired board and an ace. the art of gambling i was once told was to win as much money with the least amount of risk to your own money, and the min raise def falls into this catergory. i agree must people use it way too much and ask to be hit by a much bigger raise, but to completly rule it out of your game COULD be seen as a bit narrow minded.

Chompy_imo

"Ideally, I think betting 2.4x / 2.5x is better than a min raise, but I think the key is consistency.  I see so many players 4x with JJ and then min raise with AA, thinking they're "enticing" their opponents into the pot. But everyone smells the trap a mile off and folds!"

This is a quality point Mr Avatar. The 2.5x raise is woefully under-used.
My original point was not so much aimed at the brighter sparks what read this forum, rather the masses what get two pictures and don't know what to do with them.
Here's what you don't do with them...min raise. Grrrrr.

GREGHOGG

any more comments people? im not letting this go to page 2 obscurity so please post your views innit. Tikay that includes you please:)

BigBluster

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

min re raise ok?
Posted by PiAnOpLaYa

LOL.
Alex and I have locked horns a couple of times and there have been several steal/re-steal/re-re-steal tussles.
If anyone was going to make this post it was going to be you mate :0)


Oh, and min-raising is perfectly fine. Read Harrington on 'probe bets' and you'll never agree with TiKay again.

wynne1938

I think every one should play their own game.If one played to strict rules the game would become boring.
You pay your entry fee, you take your chances.

wynne1938

Tikay, you raised this point on TV some time ago, Where is your input to this thread.
Should be interesting.

BigBluster

In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:

Tikay, you raised this point on TV some time ago, Where is your input to this thread. Should be interesting.
Posted by wynne1938

The fact is that Tikay is simply wrong. TK advocates betting or raising 'to find out where you are' but TK often recommends betting too much. Often a min bet (or a 'probe' bet as WSOP champion Dan Harrington calls it) will elicit just the same information as TK's big bet.

Now TK has NEVER admitted that maybe, JUST MAYBE, he doesn't know it all and maybe he could be wrong. I really like the guy and think he's an excellent presenter (certainly miles ahead of that Orford bloke- lol), but maybe he doesn't have all the answers.
(Tikay, no bitterness that you rubbished my forum opinion on air, honestly,...no honestly,... no why should I take offence,...no seriously...no, I'm not having a go...)

See you at the tables.

-v-

Haha, what a stupid thread. Minimum raising is brilliant