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Discussion of £220 DS and VLV £1100 (c+p from sticky incase no one reads it).
In my view, wan mirrion things need changing with Sky poker tournaments. It's pretty hard to just say 'do XYZ to the £200' considering that many of the changes that NEED implementing are ones that require programming at Skys end. It's also of no use to say 'add xyz levels, change the clock' etc etc when the £220 is specifically a televised tournament. I completely understand that the tv dictates structure for some of the comps. However these structures do not have to be carried over into all the others ones that sky run.
It is therefore important I think to differentiate two different tournament types. Type 'TV' as it were that must take into account, tournament duration, which point it makes ft, number of runners etc. And type 'non tv' where there are no time or footage constraints. Non tv tournaments still need to be in keeping with Skys policy of aiming at it's main market, that of the casual poker player. It's no use having absoultely stonking structures if no one can get up for work the next day etc.
In answer to what I think would improve the £220 structure, bearing in mind that this is a small runner MTT which has television constraints:
The current structure for the £220 is here.
£220 Deepstack 4k starting stack Blinds Starting Stack=
1 10.00 / 20.00 12 200 bets
2 15.00 / 30.00 12
3 20.00 / 40.00 12 100 bets
4 30.00 / 60.00 12
5 40.00 / 80.00 12 50 bets (1hr)
- 3 Minutes Break -
6 50.00 / 100.00 12 40 bets
7 75.00 / 150.00 12
8 100.00 / 200.00 12 20 bets (1hr 36)
9 150.00 / 300.00 12
10 200.00 / 400.00 12 10 bets (2 hrs)
- 3 Minutes Break -
11 300.00 / 600.00 12
12 400.00 / 800.00 12
13 600.00 / 1200.00 12
14 800.00 / 1600.00 12
15 1000.00 / 2000.00 12
- 3 Minutes Break -
16 1500.00 / 3000.00 12
17 2000.00 / 4000.00 12
18 3000.00 / 6000.00 12
19 4000.00 / 8000.00 12
20 6000.00 / 12000.00 12
- 3 Minutes Break -
21 8000.00 / 16000.00 12
22 10000.00 / 20000.00 12
23 15000.00 / 30000.00 12
24 25000.00 / 50000.00 12
25 50000.00 / 100000.00 -
This is just the usual blind structure on Sky, with slightly longer levels than usual and a larger starting stack. With a 60 runner cap there is only 240k chips in play at the most so I think that we can forget levels 21-25.
I think that the above structure is too ‘slow’ at the start whilst having the blinds make overly large jumps later on that really inhibits play.
I would suggest something along the lines of (differences are highlighted).
Beaneh
£220 Deepstack 4k starting stack Blinds Starting stack=
1 10.00 / 20.00 8 200bets
2 15.00 / 30.00 8
3 20.00 / 40.00 8 100bets
4 30.00 / 60.00 8
5 40.00 / 80.00 8 50bets
6 50.00 / 100.00 10
7 75.00 / 150.00 10 27bets(1 hr)
8 100.00 / 200.00 10
9 125.00 / 250.00 10 ANTES HERE PLS....
10 150.00 / 300.00 10
11 200.00 / 400.00 10 10bets
12 250.00 / 500.00 10
13 300.00 / 600.00 10 (2hr)
14 400.00 / 800.00 10
15 500.00 / 1000.00 12
16 600.00 / 1200.00 12
17 800.00 / 1600.00 12
18 1000.00 / 2000.00 12
19 1250.00 / 2500.00 12
20 1500.00 / 3000.00 12
21 2000.00 / 4000.00 12
22 2500.00 / 5000.00 12
23 3000.00 / 6000.00 12
24 4000.00 / 8000.00 12
25 5000.00 / 10000.00 12
With this structure, it attempts to ‘speed up’ somewhat the exceptionally deep period at the start of the tournament. Whilst smoothing the structure out so that later on in the tournament there is more play and the stacks are deeper relative to the blinds. Ideally we want as little play where everyone has 10 bbs as possible and not too much play when everyone has 1k bbs and may choose not to play.
It would be completely possible to remove altogether the first 2 levels and have all blind lengths back at 12 minutes.
I’m not sure how the breaks would be fitted in, nor how it would work exactly with the televised aspect of it, but that structure even without having antes implemented would definitely make the tournament more enjoyable to play. Is it not possible to have a tournament take place on the Thursday and then be shown in a condensed format on the Friday or ie on another day. So that exact timings aren’t a concern. The tournaments could also be uploaded onto Youtube/webspace such that people can go back and look through the archives of replays, or maybe just final table replays etc.
With regards toViva Las Vegas, the £1100 buyin. The current structure is below.
£1100 VLV 5k Starting stack Blinds starting stack =
1 10.00 / 20.00 15 250 bets
2 15.00 / 30.00 15
3 20.00 / 40.00 15 125 bets
4 30.00 / 60.00 15
- 5 Minutes Break -
5 40.00 / 80.00 15
6 50.00 / 100.00 15 50 bets
7 75.00 / 150.00 15
8 100.00 / 200.00 15 25 bets
- 5 Minutes Break -
9 150.00 / 300.00 15
10 200.00 / 400.00 15 12.5bets
11 300.00 / 600.00 15 8.3bets
12 400.00 / 800.00 15
- 5 Minutes Break -
13 600.00 / 1200.00 15
14 800.00 / 1600.00 15
15 1000.00 / 2000.00 15
16 1500.00 / 3000.00 15
- 5 Minutes Break -
17 2000.00 / 4000.00 15
18 3000.00 / 6000.00 15
19 4000.00 / 8000.00 15
20 6000.00 / 12000.00 15
- 5 Minutes Break -
21 8000.00 / 16000.00 15
22 10000.00 / 20000.00 15
23 15000.00 / 30000.00 15
24 25000.00 / 50000.00 15
- 5 Minutes Break -
25 50000.00 / 100000.00 -
Beaneh
£1100 VLV 10k Starting stack Blinds starting stack =
1 25.00 / 50.00 10 200 bets
2 30.00 / 60.00 10
3 40.00 / 80.00 10
4 50.00 / 100.00 10 100 bets
5 75.00 / 150.00 15
6 100.00 / 200.00 15 50 bets
7 125.00 / 250.00 15 ANTES PLS
8 150.00 / 300.00 15
9 200.00 / 400.00 15
10 250.00 / 500.00 15 20bets
11 300.00 / 600.00 15
12 400.00 / 800.00 15
13 500.00 / 1000.00 20 10bets
14 600.00 / 1200.00 20
15 800.00 / 1600.00 20
16 1000.00 / 2000.00 20
17 1250.00 / 2500.00 20
18 1500.00 / 3000.00 20
19 2000.00 / 4000.00 20
20 2500.00 / 5000.00 20
21 3000.00 / 6000.00 20
22 3500.00 / 7000.00 20
23 4000.00 / 8000.00 20
24 5000.00 / 10000.00 20
Something like this, which reduces the amount of time that everyone is super deep whilst increasing the amount of time it will take the average stack to go from 50- 10/20 bets.
For those that think the be all and end of all tournament structures is to increase the starting stack size whilst changing nothing else, take a read of this article by Matt Savage (exWSOP/WPT TD, founder of the TDA, Commerce TD, inaugural inductee into Poker Room Managers Hall of Fame) discussing the methods by which a tournament director can increase the play at the right times of a poker tournament so as to benefit the whole field rather than just a select few.
With regards to other improvements that sky could make, here is a small list of suggestions.
Enable multiple lobby windows to be open.
Implement hand for hand.
Implement running antes in tournaments.
Allow stack sizes to be visible at all times even when people have long locations and have made an action etc.
Correct the graphics for when a 3 handed game breaks to a 2 handed game and the button is incorrectly placed relative to post flop positions. It puts people at a huge disadvantage when they base their preflop play off of the dealer button and then post flop the action is reversed.
Introduce a time bank feature.
Stop raking rebuys.
Standardise the breaks in tournaments so that if you are playing more than one you can be on break in them all at the same time, preferably at 5 to the hour to fit in with the rest of the poker world. Not sure what affect the breaks and timings would have on the live show side of things.
Registration time, as it is 30 seconds before a tournament start time you cant register for the tournament. Not only should you be able to register up until the time of the tournament starting but it would be good if there was a late registration feature, as it just increases prize pools/fields and pays more rake to you guys. Again as usual with the televised tournaments etc a reduced late reg time could work better.
Stack size information in hand histories when players don’t act/put a chip in the pot. At the moment that information is not there which is super unhelpful, even more so with the introduction of the 200bb mastercash tables.
Lobby layout + people sitting at 8 heads up tables and not one table running. Having a max no of hu tables per limit you could sit at would be excellent. Most nights you have 8-20 hu tables with 1 person waiting, they never play each other and they are only waiting for donations, it doesn’t look good in the lobby to see so many people waiting and no one ever playing. This became a massive problem over the two years on other sites with a range of different measures being brought in but with nothing yet that has really sorted the problem short of in some places removing the heads up games.
Increase the number of satellites to the VLV/SPT stuff. There is most definitely room in the schedule for some Turbo tournaments be they SNG’s or MTT’s.
Comments
I find a lot of Sky tournies difficult to play when you only start with 2000. One hand gone wrong and its game over, so to have 4k stack but a quick start means you get time to play deepstacked but it doesn't go on for an eternity. Think this would work well!!
you should be getting payed for this beaneh lol ,
excellent work m8y .
I would like to see locked tables with passwords where forumers can set up private sngs and stuff
Great stuff, thank you. I'll address it soonest, today if possible.
Agree totally
Dave
Well Set Out,
Well Debated,
Well Done !!!!!!!!