Is there an argument for raising any PP pre-flop?

unknown_username

Right, basically i am a relatively inexperienced player but am trying hard to improve as quickly as possible. (The advice on the clinic boards are very hepful so thanks to all who post on here).

Hand History #360813910 (18:12 11/04/2011)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bitterbelt	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£20.65
x	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£3.20
	Your hole cards	3 3
frankban09	Fold
stokefc	Fold
elliserin	Raise		£0.16	£0.28	£7.84
DrSharp	Call		£0.16	£0.44	£7.30
bitterbelt	Fold
x	Call		£0.08	£0.52	£3.12
Flop
		3 4 5
x	Bet		£0.24	£0.76	£2.88
elliserin	Fold
DrSharp	Raise		£0.48	£1.24	£6.82
x	Raise		£0.48	£1.72	£2.40
DrSharp	All-in		£6.82	£8.54	£0.00
x	All-in		£2.40	£10.94	£0.00
DrSharp	Unmatched bet		£4.18	£6.76	£4.18
x	Show	2 A
DrSharp	Show	3 3
Turn
		Q
River
		K
quenby	Win	Straight to the 5	£6.25

Basically had a feeling that the guy would have a straight but i am right shoving here with a set? Felt a little uncomfortable but i have to get it in dont i?

Secondly, when he turned over A, 2 my first instinct was 'if i raised pre-flop despite the min raiser then he would'nt have played the hand'.

Basically, i know it is the common theme that you get it in with a set, but is there an argument for raising with small PP's pre-flop or is this a just a cooler?

Thanks guys.

DOHHHHHHH

Pocket pairs, especially small ones, are great for winning big pots in cash games.

Flatting is fine pre, if you're first to act, raise, the same as you would with aces.

If you flop a set, you're looking to get all the money in, no matter what's on the board.

This was vul.

pod1

pos plays a big part on raising small pps, on the button and sb bb i would just call, early pos i would raise depending on table dynamic. i think on that board i wouldnt be getting it all in , too many draws. build the pot  but keep it under control. as it plays out this time , the money would be going in anyhows.

grantorino

In Response to Re: Is there an argument for raising any PP pre-flop?:

pos plays a big part on raising small pps, on the button and sb bb i would just call, early pos i would raise depending on table dynamic. i think on that board i wouldnt be getting it all in , too many draws. build the pot  but keep it under control. as it plays out this time , the money would be going in anyhows.
Posted by pod1

dont pot control when you flop a set. shovel in as much as possible

donkeyplop

If it hasn't already been raised I will raise all pairs if playing them.

Saying that I only come into any pot now with a raise.........

I think at 8nl you could of re raised pre, but he had an ace and most at this level still call you, just ul.

pod1

even on this board grantorino. you got bottom set, each draw is nearly at 50% surley some control is needed. your putting nearly £7 into a £1.70 pot, the only hands CALLING you are beating you or are nearly 50%. why flip for it? would you make the same descision if he had £10 behind him?

unknown_username

Thanks for the replies guys.

I dont think i did too much wrong in the hand, i was just throwing the question out there about raising small pocket pairs and possibly eliminating the A,2's of this world pre. Just wondered if it was a viable option. Probably becomes too expensive over time as you only hit 1 in 8 flops for the set so limping in is possibly the way to go but just a general wondering after this hand.

unknown_username

For the record, i knew i had him covered, i knew i couldnt lay the hand down (its a set, Tikay says go broke), i knew it was going in at some point so thought i may as well get it in early and make him make his decision.

YOUNG_GUN

I'd say alot depends on position and your opponents. the above example is fine and im happy to get in

Generally unopend i will always raise regardless of style of opponents, if someone limps then i will raise if i think they fold otherwise happy to call behind

their obv is no rule but best way is to play the player and how much stack they got and what would be the best way from there.

N1CK

its tough when they min open coz if you raise they can raise again and if they have a big hand AAetc they can blow you off set mining value, these pocket pairs are golden you need to see as many flops as possible so calling opens is pretty standard,
you can never fold that spot on that board vs that stack, i would think positively about this hand that the guy was short stacked and you didnt lose to much lol

pod1

can i ask nick, had op had 10/20 quid behind would you shove. if not what would you do post flop with the bet they put in (on that borad)

N1CK

In Response to Re: Is there an argument for raising any PP pre-flop?:

can i ask nick, had op had 10/20 quid behind would you shove. if not what would you do post flop with the bet they put in (on that borad)
Posted by pod1

in op you ment the villian yeah? he donks out gets minraised then 3bet mins back? if he done that with a full stack yeah i would be looking to get it in, ok we have bottom set on wet board but i would pretty much need to know him inside out to think about slowing down, at the end of the day vs a random who can pretty much have any2 the way it played pre flop there are plenty of hands we beat and hands we still have good/some equity against so stack off and put it down to the variance imo

BigBluster

Is there an argument for raising any PP pre-flop?

Yes. There is an argument for anything in poker! But it's a weak argument that doesn't stand much scrutiny.

MP33

Agree with the above posts and as said the moneys going in anyway _ hard to put him on str8 though after flop

You have to see a flop with pocket pairs, unless soemones gone all in or a big raise from an uber tight player, and then re-asses from there depending on position and most importantly your opponent  and obv the cards

Just UL on that occasion