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MTT, tight fold?

edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic

I've been opening alot of pots, with abit of success, taking alot of pots down pre flop. A couple of times the annoying nitty shorty to my left has jammed over my raises and I have had to fold, but generally I'm getting my own way with the table. (his stack isn't showing but was around 9-12 bbs for like an hour)

I haven't even really been flatted much, if at all, I can't remember having to play a pot, the table was pretty tight. If Greg wasn't on my left I'd be opening much more but I had to be abit more selective than normal.

The big blind is very abc, and will be playing solid cards. They are quite passive, and will check call with medium strength hands, and be more inclined to raise with strong hands,

A hand I saw them play earlier in an unraised pot.

BB checked after an utg limper and bet/called on a T high dry flop, leaving a psb behind. The turn was a King, so K T x x on the board, and BB jammed, looked up by slowplayed aces utg, and showed KTo for top 2.

When I get c/r on the flop I'm v worried despite flopping well.

The chunky turn lead just made me think I can't ever be good here. It must be AT, or a set....

Is a fold here too tight?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
olliepokr1 Small blind  200.00 200.00 10049.50
xxx Big blind  400.00 600.00 10930.00
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • A
     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  825.00 1425.00 11180.00
GREGHOGG Fold     
bigbow1507 Fold     
olliepokr1 Fold     
xxxCall  425.00 1850.00 10505.00
Flop
   
  • 10
  • 7
  • A
     
xxx Check     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  985.00 2835.00 10195.00
xxx Raise  1970.00 4805.00 8535.00
DOHHHHHHH Call  985.00 5790.00 9210.00
Turn
   
  • 2
     
xxx Bet  4000.00 9790.00 4535.00
DOHHHHHHH Fold     
xxxMuck     
xxx Win  5790.00  10325.00
xxx Return  4000.00 0.00 14325.00

Comments

  • edited April 2011

    Impossible to believe the 2 on the turn has improved his position, so if you
    were committed to your hand prior to this, I am really surprised he managed to get you
    to fold after betting on sight of a nothing card.
    To answer your question therefore, a camel's a rse in a sandstorm could not be any
    tighter than you were then :-)

  • edited April 2011
    From the earlier hand you described it seems as though our opponent has 2 pair or a set, maybe 777.

    I don't mind the fold. I always say it's better to make a bad fold than a bad call, especially in tournaments.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    Impossible to believe the 2 on the turn has improved his position, so if you were committed to your hand prior to this, I am really surprised he managed to get you to fold after betting on sight of a nothing card. To answer your question therefore, a camel's a rse in a sandstorm could not be any tighter than you were then :-)
    Posted by SILEEK
    im sorry but the villain has shown strength on the flop and continued it on the turn i think the 2 is irrelevant to the strength of his hand, with the op reads on this guy i think its a pretty easy fold
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold? : im sorry but the villain has shown strength on the flop and continued it on the turn i think the 2 is irrelevant to the strength of his hand, with the op reads on this guy i think its a pretty easy fold
    Posted by N1CK
    In which case, he should have folded at the re-raise at the flop?
    The "villain" as you have it, showed strength in equal measure
    here?
  • edited April 2011
    I think folding the flop must be abit too tight????

    But maybe not.....

    Dunno what I was hoping. Hoped they would slow down on turn & riv I guess. 
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold? : In which case, he should have folded at the re-raise at the flop? The "villain" as you have it, showed strength in equal measure here?
    Posted by SILEEK
    i think it would be a bit weak to fold the flop
  • edited April 2011
    I think that's my point!!!
    Having called the re-raise at the flop, there is a committment
    to the hand, and the "villains" bet at the turn is him showing
    committment to his hand, and trying to get you off yours. So I just think having gone so far, I'd
    have to go over the cliff - but hey, I bet on horses for a living, so
    my propensity to gamble probably precludes me from being a very
    good poker player!! :-)
  • edited April 2011
    I'd be folding too. 

    The worst hand I put him on is AQ/AJ of spades, which means he could have just picked up 9 extra outs when 2s appears, hence is über strong lead out on the turn.

    He may have a set, more likely to be 10s/AAs, as wouldn't expect a re-raise pre-flop with 77s. But if he had the set, surely he'd milk (or at least try) you with a smaller bet?

    I'd find a better spot.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    I think that's my point!!! Having called the re-raise at the flop, there is a committment to the hand, and the "villains" bet at the turn is him showing committment to his hand, and trying to get you off yours. So I just think having gone so far, I'd have to go over the cliff - but hey, I bet on horses for a living, so my propensity to gamble probably precludes me from being a very good poker player!! :-)
    Posted by SILEEK
    I haven't really gone that far in my hand.....

    My c-bet was around half pot, and my pre flop raise was only 2xbb.

    I've put a small %age of my stack in the middle, I still have 22xbb behind, which is probably bang on average.

    I'd also been stealing alot of pots, and felt I had an edge at the table.

    I kept the pot small on purpose, so I could get away in spots like this.

    I'm not saying that your idea of getting all in is bad neccesserily, but your reason for doing so isn't very solid as I am far from pot committed to the hand.

    -----------------------------------

    The villain claimed A7 in chat btw. Dunno how believable that ever is, but it sounds about right......
  • edited April 2011
    The only real question in my mind would be is he playing back at you simply because your playing so many pots.  Seems possible on the flop, but unlikey at the turn.  The table dynamic being what you say I totally lean to the set, as the bet sizing on the flop screams please call.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold? : I haven't really gone that far in my hand..... My c-bet was around half pot, and my pre flop raise was only 2xbb. I've put a small %age of my stack in the middle, I still have 22xbb behind, which is probably bang on average. I'd also been stealing alot of pots, and felt I had an edge at the table. I kept the pot small on purpose, so I could get away in spots like this. I'm not saying that your idea of getting all in is bad neccesserily, but your reason for doing so isn't very solid as I am far from pot committed to the hand. ----------------------------------- The villain claimed A7 in chat btw. Dunno how believable that ever is, but it sounds about right......
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    When I say "gone that far" I am not specifically referring to cash
    or chips invested - I am also talking about the mechanics of the
    decision to play the hand, if you get my drift?!
    I constantly berate myself for calling a raise, then folding a re-raise because
    to my mind if I was so quickly forced to put down, then I question whether I had any right calling
    in the first place - does that make any sense?
    You lads are clearly much more knowledgeable and experienced when it comes to
    poker (but in no other area do I concede!!) than I am, but I have a perverse desire
    to put forward a contrary opinion to stir debate - don't get me started on horses or football :-)
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold? : When I say "gone that far" I am not specifically referring to cash or chips invested - I am also talking about the mechanics of the decision to play the hand, if you get my drift?! I constantly berate myself for calling a raise, then folding a re-raise because to my mind if I was so quickly forced to put down, then I question whether I had any right calling in the first place - does that make any sense? You lads are clearly much more knowledgeable and experienced when it comes to poker (but in no other area do I concede!!) than I am, but I have a perverse desire to put forward a contrary opinion to stir debate - don't get me started on horses or football :-)
    Posted by SILEEK
    lol yeh, I know what you mean. But although the 2 on the turn hasn't changed anything, with my opponent firing again on strongly it confirms my suspicion that I was beat on the flop. I guess I flatted the raise on the flop to "ask a question" of them on the turn. Have they really got me beat? 

    It's alot harder for them to fire the turn as a bluff than it is for them to check raise the flop, as I've called 1 time, so they know I have something. Also a bluff on the turn is going to cost them a much larger chunk of their stack. So it's gonna take alot of guts, as well as a strong read that I will fold alot of the time.

    On the flop they could well be exploiting their image, and taking advantage of mine (as I've been really aggro, I could just b c-betting air)

    --------------------------

    Anyway - There's a tip flying round punters corner for Ocean Transit today 20 past three at Chelt. What do you think? Will it win/place either or neither????

    Thinking about having a large bet on it......


  • edited April 2011
    Ive read about 3/4 of the way down and im going to reply now before i forget everything im going to say.

    Its a standard fold imo.

    A. the guy min raises the flop.

    B. He continues on the turn. (the 2 is irrelevent)

    I rekon villian has 77, TT or AT persoanlly. However because he only min raises the flop it allows us to reassess the turn.

    Now once he bets this about im pretty sure we're beat, and i already was. So yea standard fold from me, infact i probably play the hand the excact same way as our OP.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold?:
    In Response to Re: MTT, tight fold? : lol yeh, I know what you mean. But although the 2 on the turn hasn't changed anything, with my opponent firing again on strongly it confirms my suspicion that I was beat on the flop. I guess I flatted the raise on the flop to "ask a question" of them on the turn. Have they really got me beat?  It's alot harder for them to fire the turn as a bluff than it is for them to check raise the flop, as I've called 1 time, so they know I have something. Also a bluff on the turn is going to cost them a much larger chunk of their stack. So it's gonna take alot of guts, as well as a strong read that I will fold alot of the time. On the flop they could well be exploiting their image, and taking advantage of mine (as I've been really aggro, I could just b c-betting air) -------------------------- Anyway - There's a tip flying round punters corner for Ocean Transit today 20 past three at Chelt. What do you think? Will it win/place either or neither???? Thinking about having a large bet on it......
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Not a big fan of this Cheltenham meeting, it's always had an end of season after the Festival feel, and results
    to raise the eyebrows not uncommon!
    The race in question looks fiendishly difficult, and throw in the fact it is restricted to the female of the species, and I am drawn to it even less!
    You might get lucky, but I would not have a bet in the race with counterfeit :-)
  • edited April 2011
    Fold he has set or 2 pair, dont mind flatting flop but turn would have to be a fold. if it was a total donk then fairplay get him in but with your reads i would fold turn and play similar to u
  • edited April 2011
    good but easy fold, a lot of people would go broke on this hand.
  • edited April 2011
    Id find it hard to fold this flop although  its prob a fold if he is that passive, but if I call the flop their is no way Im folding turn without a very reliable read

    To call flop fold turn, you need to know he doesnt fire again if hes bluffing or if he value raises worse he doesnt vbet again on a blank turn
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