i know its not easy folding kk but!!

pod1

tech34Small blind £0.10£0.10£40.70g-masterBig blind £0.20£0.30£7.74 Your hole cardsAA   IVISONFold    pod1Raise £0.60£0.90£19.70gragunRaise £1.40£2.30£38.98SHANKS474Fold    tech34Call £1.30£3.60£39.40g-masterFold    pod1Raise £3.20£6.80£16.50gragunRaise £9.60£16.40£29.38tech34Fold    pod1All-in £16.50£32.90£0.00gragunCall £9.30£42.20£20.08pod1ShowAA   gragunShowKK   Flop  297   Turn  Q   River  5   pod1WinPair of Aces£40.40 £40.40

N1CK

but what?

grantorino

folding KK there would be beyond terrible. He is nearly getting odds to call if you show him AA

pod1

apart from showing my hand face up, surley he must of knew from the 4 bet let alone 6th!

grantorino

if he should know you have AA from the 4bet then you shouldnt 4bet

pod1

why!!!!! when i know hes strong

grantorino

I like the way you played the hand

If you think villain should know from the 4bet you have AA then you are allowing him to play perfectly. If you are 4betting AA you need to 4bet other hands also. Against an unknown it doesnt really matter but against someone even semi competentwho plays with you a lot its a huge leak

percival09

You seriously think he should have folded the second best starting in NL Holdem 6 handed? No

offshoot

wtf is this? so now youre just insulting other players aswell as starting brag or bad beat threads?

GREGHOGG

Poddy!

So he is bad because he didnt fold kk?

Surely you have to be bad to telegraph your hand to the extent that you think he should fold KK beacuse he puts you on AA?

If you have AA you want customers, not to scare them off!

Rethink this through imo!

BrownnDog

/ thread

pod1

this was not a bad beat thread or a brag post!!! nor was it to put the guy down, but at what point do you put a guy on aces. the post i put up before  was about 4 betting, when to use and how to,because i have never used it before!! what i was trying to say (not very well ob) was if someone had 4bet me in this situation i would have put them on aa and prob folded.

GREGHOGG

It would be a mistake for anyone to fold KK preflop in an online 6 max cash game, when only 100bbs deep, vs one opponant imo. (without an extreamly strong read)

I understand that this isnt a brag/bad beat post Poddy but KK is such a strong hand that in this sort of cash game, i cant see why we would fold KK ever in the above circumstances. a 4 bet does not always mean AA. the villian played this fine.

If your 4 bets only mean AA, then it may be advisable to 4 bet with other hands also, or people will start folding KK against you! (but this is maybe the image you are trying to portray from an OP like this)!!

pod1

you just dont see many 4 bets at this level greg as you know, and the very few times i have seen it ,it always aces. like i say its something i want to put into my game. i asked a question in the clinic during the week and got 1 response about 4 betting. it almost seems as though people only post to "CRITIC" rather than help.

percival09

That's probably the most ridiculous thing i've heard. So are you saying the opponent should fold when you raise it to £3.20? There's nothing we can help with, this post isn't asking for help, nobody did anything wrong! 

HITMAN_RV

POD !!

I had this locked in my memory bank from Nov last year will put up mi post, with much respect to Glitterbabe, but think this whole thread has relevance to the OP !

I was not the opening poster, but thought this relevant to the thread then, as Now!

I understand the difference to the OP hand where i feel KK can Never fold, but this is another example where he CAN & does!!

ps. I was, and still am, very much a novice at cash !!

Re: Fold KK pre flop???? posted at 22/11/2010 3:29 PM GMT on SkyPoker.com

HITMAN_RV Posts: 1674 First: 30/6/2009 Last: 15/4/2011

Fold kk pre?? Respect where respect is due!!! Glitter told me after he had KK,  I'm not that good to get off that i dont think!! May have telegraphed him & lost value, but just shows the skill of the man!! My rererere-raise too high meybe, would you call aganst him or meybe overbet all-in, I was happy not to see flop & take a lower pot without him puttin me to a later tough descision, maybe!! Hand History #305614866 (16:04 07/11/2010) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Slugger123 Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £42.04 EVILEDNA Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £87.00   Your hole cards A A       sam1986 Raise   £3.00 £4.50 £285.90 rizo575 Call   £3.00 £7.50 £84.40 GliterBabe Raise   £10.00 £17.50 £293.91 HITMAN_RV Raise   £25.00 £42.50 £203.51 Slugger123 Fold         EVILEDNA Fold         sam1986 Fold         rizo575 Fold         GliterBabe Raise   £40.00 £82.50 £253.91 HITMAN_RV Raise   £100.00 £182.50 £103.51 GliterBabe Fold         HITMAN_RV Muck         HITMAN_RV Win   £107.50   £211.01 HITMAN_RV Return   £75.00 £0.00 £286.01

yb

that hand is totally different to the OP because of how deep you are and also gliterbabe's image, it means you only really ever show up with AA there (not even KK imo).

pod1 if your range is AA only when you 4bet then thats a huge leak. obv your opponent shouldn't be folding KK.

donkeyplop

Have to agree with this rest m8!

You shouldnt fold kk there 100bb deep.

HITMAN_RV

In Response to Re: i know its not easy folding kk but!!:

that hand is totally different to the OP because of how deep you are and also gliterbabe's image, it means you only really ever show up with AA there (not even KK imo). pod1 if your range is AA only when you 4bet then thats a huge leak. obv your opponent shouldn't be folding KK.
Posted by yb

agreed yb, in the OP the guy KK is never put in a position to fold !!

Just showing an example of when some-one IS in a position to consider folding KK and makes that CORRECT decision!! I'm not that good !!!!

hurst05

HIRARIOUS

HITMAN_RV

In Response to Re: i know its not easy folding kk but!!:

HIRARIOUS
Posted by hurst05

LOL RUBBERY !!

5toneFace

5bet fold KK ftw!!!

grantorino

In Response to Re: i know its not easy folding kk but!!:

In Response to Re: i know its not easy folding kk but!! : agreed yb, in the OP the guy KK is never put in a position to fold !! Just showing an example of when some-one IS in a position to consider folding KK and makes that CORRECT decision!! I'm not that good !!!!
Posted by HITMAN_RV

Hitman ,your hand is different because
1. You are 200BB deep
2. You cold 4bet an UTG open which has been 3bet. This looks superstrong, unless their is some unusual aggro dynamic at table

If villain folded KK here, he is only correct to do so if he can narrow your range to KK+. If he can do this you have played the hand badly or need to adjust your ranges for 4betting etc.

 Raising his 5bet is pretty bad imo .  Also you should never be happy when he folds pre with 40BB already put in when you have the nuts and are 4/1 favourite in hand

Also while I kind of see why villain did it, 5b/f KK seems really wrong to me

HITMAN_RV

In Response to Re: i know its not easy folding kk but!!:

In Response to Re: i know its not easy folding kk but!! : Hitman ,your hand is different because 1. You are 200BB deep 2. You cold 4bet an UTG open which has been 3bet. This looks superstrong, unless their is some unusual aggro dynamic at table If villain folded KK here, he is only correct to do so if he can narrow your range to KK+. If he can do this you have played the hand badly or need to adjust your ranges for 4betting etc.  Raising his 5bet is pretty bad imo .  Also you should never be happy when he folds pre with 40BB already put in when you have the nuts and are 4/1 favourite in hand Also while I kind of see why villain did it, 5b/f KK seems really wrong to me
Posted by grantorino

Understood thanks, this was pretty much the consensus back in Nov!!

Table had been pretty aggro, not Glitter obviously, agree prob should check & see flop & re-assess, but a scary board & any Glitter aggression post, with his rep, & mi less experiance, it could easy have gone wrong!!

Again just really showin Pod a different example, from mi limited experiance, of where they[kk] can be folded!!

This was mi intention on the earlier thread when the OP was saying KK should never be folded pre, so I felt I had the perfect example......FROM MI BAD PLAY LOL


Thanks tho fella, GL

MP33

definately not folding KK in the OP  - I don,t think i could fold it in the 2nd example either but thats just me