River Raise: Whats villains range?

grantorino

I Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
grantorino	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£31.58
BB	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£25.39
	Your hole cards	8 A
MP	Fold
CO	Fold
BTN	Raise		£0.40	£0.70	£18.00
grantorino	Call		£0.30	£1.00	£31.28
BB	Call		£0.20	£1.20	£25.19
Flop
		Q Q 9
grantorino	Check
BB	Check
BTN	Check
Turn
		A
grantorino	Check
BB	Check
BTN	Check
River
		4
grantorino	Bet		£0.60	£1.80	£30.68
BB	Raise		£1.80	£3.60	£23.39
BTN	Fold
grantorino	Fold
BB	Muck
BB	Win		£2.28		£25.67
BB	Return		£1.20	£0.12	£26.87

BB seems solid, BTN has opened a lot, seems to play too many pots, its first time he has minraised. Not enough hands for reads to be solid

Comments on all streets welcome, but Im mainly interested in BB range for river raise. I find this is usually a huge hand, but only hand that makes sense to me is 44. I dont think he valueraises worse than A8 but  can he be bluffing enough for me to call?

yb

fold or 3bet pre imo

as played I'd fold because I can't see him bluffing or value raising worse anywhere near enough times for the call to be profitable, if he's good he only reps 44 but at 20nl he could easily have been slowplaying.

DOHHHHHHH

It would be alot easier for me to comment if you'd left the name in.

I've got notes on pretty much every semi-reg at these levels, but if he was a new player I'd call and make a note, I really don't mind paying here as I think the info you will get will be worth much more than 1.20 in the long run.

Unless he has pocket 4's. he's played it badly no matter what he has. 

Obv should be polarised to a monster or nothing, but you get some plonkers value raising stuff like A9 here, not even joking!

I really wouldn't be surprised to see any hand here. You don't need specific notes/reads alot of the time at 20/30 nl, just knowing if a guy is agro bad/passive bad or agro/good passive/solid is enough to make this decision so much easier.

Just call, and see.

easy call/easy fold if you know the guy tho.

percival09

must have 44! Raise or fold pre, and good fold imo, doubt he's ever bluffing that small with that much invested with such little aggression shown earlier in the hand. 

grantorino

Pre I usually do raise or fold, but btn was opening wide and I wasnt sure what the minraise meant so I decided to flat with A8s and proceed cautiously postflop. He had also called a couple of 3bets previously.

villain hadnt been active and seemed solid, but really not enough of  sample to be sure. Still not sure what I should be doing 3/1 is a nice price for a call, and if villain has any handreading skills he knows my strongest possible hand is Ax. That prob gives random 20NL player too much credit though and I suppose he can be a fish with a Q or 99 too

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range?:

Unless he has pocket 4's. he's played it badly no matter what he has.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

disagree

grantorino

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range?:

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range? : disagree
Posted by LOL_RAISE

care to elaborate? I think its pretty bad unless he as 44 or air

DOHHHHHHH

^^^^

Well u wud wuntchya !!!!!!!!!

If he's hit the flop or the turn surely he needs to start getting some money in on either street and not wait till the river to try and get value.

If he's bluffing he might as well not bother as it's cheap (in terms of bb's) for people to call, and there's nothing in there to win anyway!

LOL_RAISE

Ace hits btns range pretty well, i think checking with the intention of c/ring is pretty good

grantorino

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range?:

Ace hits btns range pretty well, i think checking with the intention of c/ring is pretty good
Posted by LOL_RAISE

you will have to explain this. Are you talking about on the turn? What part of villains range are you talking about?

scrumdown

like dohhhh said for 1.20 had have called just see his cards get notes on him saying could have trip queens juss betting for value on the river

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range?:

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range? : you will have to explain this. Are you talking about on the turn? What part of villains range are you talking about?
Posted by grantorino

when btn checks back hes going to have small pairs or ace high most of the time.
we arent getting any money from small pairs and i think best way to get value from Ax is to c/r.

grantorino

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range?:

In Response to Re: River Raise: Whats villains range? : when btn checks back hes going to have small pairs or ace high most of the time. we arent getting any money from small pairs and i think best way to get value from Ax is to c/r.
Posted by LOL_RAISE

Sorry if Im being dumb, but again are you saying BB should be going for a turn c/r when the A drops? Are you saying he should be doing it with Qx or better? or some other holdings?

LOL_RAISE

well ideally vs competant opponents you would do it with both Qx+ and air/draws but if the guy is on the spewy side do it for value, if on the tight side do it more as a bluff.

leading turn and river is obviously what most people with Qx would do here and maybe it is the highest EV vs villains who arent capable of folding Ax on the river but its good to take non standard lines and think about what we are trying to do/get villain to do

grantorino

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, thanks. Think I would much prefer leading turn and river with Qx without a very good read though as I think there is a reasonable chance btn checks back an ace