how to play the river?

beeasyonme

the villain here has been on the table for quite some time, however having any real reads is difficult as she has been hanging on for dear life for almost the whole time and has been aggresive whenever she has hit. on this hand she keeps flat calling and i get a nasty river card. Everything tells me that she is chasing here so how do i play the river, do i speed up or slow down?

BLOXO	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£3.39
beeasyonme	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£21.88
	Your hole cards	Q 8
vil	Raise		£0.20	£0.35	£8.81
1-on-u	Fold
mikej1989	Call		£0.20	£0.55	£37.67
hamster880	Fold
BLOXO	Call		£0.15	£0.70	£3.24
beeasyonme	Call		£0.10	£0.80	£21.78
Flop
		4 8 6
BLOXO	Check
beeasyonme	Bet		£0.40	£1.20	£21.38
vil	Call		£0.40	£1.60	£8.41
mikej1989	Call		£0.40	£2.00	£37.27
BLOXO	Call		£0.40	£2.40	£2.84
Turn
		Q
BLOXO	Check
beeasyonme	Bet		£1.80	£4.20	£19.58
vil	Call		£1.80	£6.00	£6.61
mikej1989	Fold
BLOXO	Fold
River
		A

forgot to mention she has just won about 3 big pots in quick succesion to get her stack up

percival09

sod value, i fold pre. 

Like the lead out on the flop, presuming you are going to fold if a raise comes in. 

I probably bet a little bigger on the turn but that's fine.

Tough spot on the river looking at the chip stacks, I probably check/fold to a shove. 

yb

fold pre, as played I'd probably c/f the river

jgn

im still betting here im betting about 2.50 as a blocker bet i think the probelm here is that flop i think i over bet that flop to at least a £1 to get over cards out eg people with an ace and if u get a caller the turn is value from there.

grantorino

In Response to Re: how to play the river?:

im still betting here im betting about 2.50 as a blocker bet i think the probelm here is that flop i think i over bet that flop to at least a £1 to get over cards out eg people with an ace and if u get a caller the turn is value from there.
Posted by jgn

If you are betting that flop for value you WANT worse hands to call.

I prob check flop . There is value in betting but we are going to be in an awkward spot on nearly all turns that dont directly improve our hand. If you are betting bet around 75-85% of pot
 
bet turn bigger

river is a horrible card prob c/f unless villain bets really small

percival09

In Response to Re: how to play the river?:

In Response to Re: how to play the river? : If you are betting that flop for value you WANT worse hands to call. I prob check flop . There is value in betting but we are going to be in an awkward spot on nearly all turns that dont directly improve our hand. If you are betting bet around 75-85% of pot   bet turn bigger river is a horrible card prob c/f unless villain bets really small
Posted by grantorino

Thats what we call value betting. 

grantorino

In Response to Re: how to play the river?:

In Response to Re: how to play the river? : Thats what we call value betting. 
Posted by percival09

lol maybe, people do stupid things all the time though so I consider the call if I get really good odds

beeasyonme

yeah i would normally throw this hand away, but called as i was half in and had 3 callers before so i felt as if i was priced in. I really did'nt want to show any weakness on this hand but i kinda knew it was over so i slowed down and folded to the shove, i would of called if the bet was small though just for information which would not of helped as she shot off straight after.

cheers everyone Zena

hamster880

Hi

I not very keen on the preflop call. although you are getting great pot odds you get yourself in too many difficult situation with hands like these (better, to call with lower suited connectors, or suited cards, as two pair is often outfushed or runs up against a set: Here an example with me:

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a2e4f51cb-c64c-449f-a843-8db9c5fe7283Forum%3a1c6aca1e-3fea-4914-8d99-3f30a0f01e50Discussion%3af33ca3b5-6ca3-4bd2-9509-ba71c59da523&plckFindPostKey=Cat:2e4f51cb-c64c-449f-a843-8db9c5fe7283Forum:1c6aca1e-3fea-4914-8d99-3f30a0f01e50Discussion:f33ca3b5-6ca3-4bd2-9509-ba71c59da523Post:88b04b28-f18e-4826-baca-bffeebd7e31d

Additionally you have to remember you are in the big blind so out of position against most of the player (which makes it even more difficult)

I think the flop bet is good, and so is the turn. You could overbet the pot on the turn, but i max really a pot size bet is good. - just make sure you give her the wrong odds to call her draw (if that is what she is on)

On the river you have two/three options.

My favourite is a block bet: around 1/4 of the pot. If you do this you have fold if you get re-raised (she definatley has the flush)
Alternatively you can check to her, she then bets (if it is less that third of the pot i would probably call - especially if she is bluffing alot - the check call will probably cost you slightly more - though you get to see her cards)

You could also check fold to any reasonable bet. But the problem with this (and why position is soooooooooo important) is many players you know you havent got the heart flush draw and bet to represent it (also the checking shows serious weakn ess). If you do this you must have firm read on your play (that he/she was definately chaseing the flush)

beeasyonme

In Response to Re: how to play the river?:

Hi I not very keen on the preflop call. although you are getting great pot odds you get yourself in too many difficult situation with hands like these (better, to call with lower suited connectors, or suited cards, as two pair is often outfushed or runs up against a set: Here an example with me: https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a2e4f51cb-c64c-449f-a843-8db9c5fe7283Forum%3a1c6aca1e-3fea-4914-8d99-3f30a0f01e50Discussion%3af33ca3b5-6ca3-4bd2-9509-ba71c59da523&plckFindPostKey=Cat:2e4f51cb-c64c-449f-a843-8db9c5fe7283Forum:1c6aca1e-3fea-4914-8d99-3f30a0f01e50Discussion:f33ca3b5-6ca3-4bd2-9509-ba71c59da523Post:88b04b28-f18e-4826-baca-bffeebd7e31d Additionally you have to remember you are in the big blind so out of position against most of the player (which makes it even more difficult) I think the flop bet is good, and so is the turn. You could overbet the pot on the turn, but i max really a pot size bet is good. - just make sure you give her the wrong odds to call her draw (if that is what she is on) On the river you have two/three options. My favourite is a block bet: around 1/4 of the pot. If you do this you have fold if you get re-raised (she definatley has the flush) Alternatively you can check to her, she then bets (if it is less that third of the pot i would probably call - especially if she is bluffing alot - the check call will probably cost you slightly more - though you get to see her cards) You could also check fold to any reasonable bet. But the problem with this (and why position is soooooooooo important) is many players you know you havent got the heart flush draw and bet to represent it (also the checking shows serious weakn ess). If you do this you must have firm read on your play (that he/she was definately chaseing the flush)
Posted by hamster880

yeah i remember seeing that one but did'nt comment on it as i thought that you did everything fine and that you were plain unlucky. Thanks for commenting i asked you to do so as iv bumped into you a couple of times over the last week and you give me alot to think about (plus you were sat at the table). So the thing to remember here is not to get drawn in by the money in the middle as you could lose so much more.