should i be betting more on the turn and the river?

pod1

Welly1Small blind£0.15£0.15£16.56latics-fanBig blind£0.30£0.45£28.68 Your hole cardshttps://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">Jhttps://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">A   pod1Raise£0.90£1.35£28.35tallboyFoldCRAZYC1985Foldhttps://www.skypoker.com/img/site/hhdealer.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: transparent; background-position: 100% 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; margin: 0px" class="dealer">marksmit15FoldWelly1Foldlatics-fanCall£0.60£1.95£28.08Flop  

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   latics-fanCheckpod1Bet£1.46£3.41£26.89latics-fanRaise£2.92£6.33£25.16pod1Call£1.46£7.79£25.43Turn  

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   latics-fanCheckpod1Bet£3.90£11.69£21.53latics-fanCall£3.90£15.59£21.26River  

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   latics-fanCheckpod1Bet£7.80£23.39£13.73latics-fanCall£7.80£31.19£13.46pod1Show

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latics-fanMuck

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pod1WinFlush to the Ace£29.63£43.36

grantorino

cant read that hand history

pod1

me either lol

pod1

Welly1	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£16.56
latics-fan	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£28.68
	Your hole cards	J A
pod1	Raise		£0.90	£1.35	£28.35
tallboy	Fold
CRAZYC1985	Fold
marksmit15	Fold
Welly1	Fold
latics-fan	Call		£0.60	£1.95	£28.08
Flop
		6 10 3
latics-fan	Check
pod1	Bet		£1.46	£3.41	£26.89
latics-fan	Raise		£2.92	£6.33	£25.16
pod1	Call		£1.46	£7.79	£25.43
Turn
		7
latics-fan	Check
pod1	Bet		£3.90	£11.69	£21.53
latics-fan	Call		£3.90	£15.59	£21.26
River
		A
latics-fan	Check
pod1	Bet		£7.80	£23.39	£13.73
latics-fan	Call		£7.80	£31.19	£13.46
pod1	Show	J A
latics-fan	Muck	6 10
pod1	Win	Flush to the Ace	£29.63

percival09

re-raise on the flop, 2 overs and the nut flush draw = THE NUTZ !!!

As played, bet more on the turn, and bet more on the river! 

grantorino

like the flop flat given odds

bet around 5.50-6 on turn shove river. People like to call, assume they will until you know otherwise

percival09

Really? What if the turn brings a blank? Trying to get it in on the flop when he's showing aggression and you probably have 15 outs is the best thing to do with 100BB. 

Dudeskin8

Half bet on turn IP.......please no.

dylan12

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:

like the flop flat given odds bet around 5.50-6 on turn shove river. People like to call, assume they will until you know otherwise
Posted by grantorino

THIS ^^^^

Perhaps just a bit above £6 but in that range so you can get it in on the River and ship all his moniez!! 

pod1

just thought anymore might tell him i hit my  flush, def think i shoulda bet more on river mind

grantorino

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:

Really? What if the turn brings a blank? Trying to get it in on the flop when he's showing aggression and you probably have 15 outs is the best thing to do with 100BB. 
Posted by percival09

If we get it in theres a decent chance we only have 9 outs. Also his sizing is bad on flop, theres a good chance it will be small on turn also so we may be able to call again if we miss.

percival09

Hmm maybe so, suppose it's hard to help with no reads on the opponent. 

It's possible he has a flush draw himself, or maybe he's a weak opponent who would stack off with 10A here? 

Fair enough if he's a solid opponent who is likely to have a set or 2 pair here, then calling is the best option, but I just think in general, re-raising in hope to get it in is the best option, but then again, maybe I'm wrong.  

N1CK

i dont like 3 betting flop here, id bet £6 on turn and the rest on the river

beeasyonme

i think you played this fine. if you reraise the flop then you might have the difficult decision to make if your opponent then places a huge overbet in. After the turn he checks so is probably weary of the flush so if you bet too high you might lose your customer and its the exact same on the river. There might of been a few more pounds to be won here but i think your spliting hairs TBH, well played.

Not sure about that one Nick is a player really checking the river then calling the shove? im not sure

dylan12

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:

i think you played this fine. if you reraise the flop then you might have the difficult decision to make if your opponent then places a huge overbet in. After the turn he checks so is probably weary of the flush so if you bet too high you might lose your customer and its the exact same on the river. There might of been a few more pounds to be won here but i think your spliting hairs TBH, well played. Not sure about that one Nick is a player really checking the river then calling the shove? im not sure
Posted by beeasyonme

They should not call a shove on the river as played - hence why we build the pot by betting more on the turn so that it makes it more likely for a shove on the river to be called. 

N1CK

also it wouldn't be a shove as such its like a pot size bet as Dylan says we have made this by betting bigger on turn, ok he may fold he may call but over time it will be more profitable imo,

and as the hand was played by op i wouldnt hate a shove on the river anyway

beeasyonme

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:

also it wouldn't be a shove as such its like a pot size bet as Dylan says we have made this by betting bigger on turn, ok he may fold he may call but over time it will be more profitable imo, and as the hand was played by op i wouldnt hate a shove on the river anyway
Posted by N1CK

I know what your saying, you want to get your OP pot commited on the turn and this is fine if they make a bet however how many players at NL30 going to check then call 20BB, not many IMO. If this was NL10 or lower then sure but at this level players understand the structure abit more and this kind of bet is likely to scare players away rather than suck them in.

N1CK

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river? : I know what your saying, you want to get your OP pot commited on the turn and this is fine if they make a bet however how many players at NL30 going to check then call 20BB, not many IMO. If this was NL10 or lower then sure but at this level players understand the structure abit more and this kind of bet is likely to scare players away rather than suck them in.
Posted by beeasyonme

the players that call oop with 10 6 and chk raise the flop. when he chk/r flop hes saying he has a strong hand and they dont like to fold them

beeasyonme

but c/r the flop is used for more than that. Alot of players are doing this to shake an opponent off a hand. Im quite sure that we are not going to agree on this one though, you do put up a good argument and i just feel that you are wrong on this particular hand but trying to pot commit your opponents on the turn when holding the nuts is definately the right thing to do long term.

pod1

so i take it then, it was acceptable ,but could do better!! 

dylan12

Acceptable indeed Mr pod but a few extra glasses of wine to go with your increase of bet sizes and all will be fine

P.S. As a final note, don't over complicate things, this is nl30, have a look at Ozzie08 and his bet sizes - taught him every thing I know apart from the 72off game he plays lol

offshoot

In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:

i think you played this fine. if you reraise the flop then you might have the difficult decision to make if your opponent then places a huge overbet in. After the turn he checks so is probably weary of the flush so if you bet too high you might lose your customer and its the exact same on the river. There might of been a few more pounds to be won here but i think your spliting hairs TBH, well played. Not sure about that one Nick is a player really checking the river then calling the shove? im not sure
Posted by beeasyonme

if he re raises the flop it isnt a difficult decision. Were only raising there if we want to get the money in.

It definitely isnt splitting hairs. Your betsizing can be the difference between being a loser or a winning player.

Once he raises the flop you know he has a good hand. On the turn hes not gonna fold if you bet 75-80% of the pot. Its not like hes thinking if the guy bets more than half the pot he has the flush and if its less he has nothing. Its more like "i have a good hand i dont want to fold, i hope my opponent lets me get to showdown cheaply, fingers crossed he doesnt have the flush."

pod1

i must admit ozzie is me idol!! such a solid game at this level, one part of me wants to play on the same table as him and part of me doesnt! just struggle with bet sizing, have done for nearly a year now and it drives me nuts, i like the rest of my game at the moment, but like you say offshoot its stopping me making enough money to move up to the next level. i dont win big and i dont lose big either. must stop being such a nit!!!