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2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!

edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic
mitieng2Small blind £0.15£0.15£28.80WATERTAXIBig blind £0.30£0.45£26.78 Your hole cards47   68TreborFold    LnarinOOFold    corbett04Fold    pod1Raise £0.90£1.35£106.20mitieng2Fold    WATERTAXICall £0.60£1.95£26.18Flop  556   WATERTAXICheck    pod1Bet £1.95£3.90£104.25WATERTAXICall £1.95£5.85£24.23Turn  8   WATERTAXICheck    pod1Bet £2.93£8.78£101.32WATERTAXICall £2.93£11.71£21.30River  J   WATERTAXICheck    pod1Bet £11.71£23.42£89.61WATERTAXICall £11.71£35.13£9.59pod1Show47   WATERTAXIMuck89   pod1WinStraight to the 8£33.37 £122.98

Comments

  • edited April 2011
    post in bbv

    dont particularly like pre, and I also dont like your betsizing
  • edited April 2011
    i agree with bbv, but whats wrong with bet sizing?
  • edited April 2011
    pod tell us your reasoning for picking your bet size on every street?  be as detailed as you can poddy, i dont mind opening that hand there.... but tell us why you did?
  • edited April 2011
    whats bbv?

    To the person who said they dislike pre, why do you dislike pre, folded to us on the button and we raise with suited gappers, nothing wrong i can see

    I like the bet sizing in general but have some comments. Pot bet of the flop maybe a little big though. Turn could possibly be a little more, charging them to fill up.

    River after the half pot bet on the turn what is your thinking? It seems to me your not fully confident in your straight on the turn so why the pot bet on the river, i guess your happy to stack if he shoves?
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    whats bbv? To the person who said they dislike pre, why do you dislike pre, folded to us on the button and we raise with suited gappers, nothing wrong i can see I like the bet sizing in general but have some comments. Pot bet of the flop maybe a little big though. Turn could possibly be a little more, charging them to fill up. River after the half pot bet on the turn what is your thinking? It seems to me your not fully confident in your straight on the turn so why the pot bet on the river, i guess your happy to stack if he shoves?
    Posted by The_Don90
    depends whos in the blinds
  • edited April 2011
    to be fair, the seat watertaxi was sat in was the seat of death. me and trebor had a bet on what time that player would lose his stack. i had 9.28 so was close to being right, raised his bb with my standard 3x. up and down str draw after flop so potted it, willing to take it down here, but still got options. turn i just wanted to build the pot after i hit, and then i bet as much  i thought he would call, had him on big pp with the c/c all the way down. was this wrong??
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    to be fair, the seat watertaxi was sat in was the seat of death. me and trebor had a bet on what time that player would lose his stack. i had 9.28 so was close to being right, raised his bb with my standard 3x. up and down str draw after flop so potted it, willing to take it down here, but still got options. turn i just wanted to build the pot after i hit, and then i bet as much  i thought he would call, had him on big pp with the c/c all the way down. was this wrong??
    Posted by pod1
    it all sounds pretty daft to me apart from "the seat of death" part lol
  • edited April 2011
    it was a bit mate and you forgot to factor in the 2 bottles of wine lol

  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    post in bbv dont particularly like pre, and I also dont like your betsizing
    Posted by grantorino
    whoooot? nowt wrong with pre. betzizing is meh, didnt read rest of hand on second bottle me self.
  • edited April 2011
    wow a lot of love for opening junk on btn in small stakes cash. Would be really surprised if opening 74s is profitable there except against very specific types of villain. From the way this played out I doubt this guy is one of them

    As for sizing, flop too big, turn too small, river looks a bit big given way hand played out, but you got paid so maybe you are right
  • edited April 2011
    its so lol that you bet small every time you hit. You put him on an overpair but dont think hes gonna call the turn if you bet big?
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    wow a lot of love for opening junk on btn in small stakes cash. Would be really surprised if opening 74s is profitable there except against very specific types of villain. From the way this played out I doubt this guy is one of them As for sizing, flop too big, turn too small, river looks a bit big given way hand played out, but you got paid so maybe you are right
    Posted by grantorino
    +1  .. a lot of people see the higher stakes player doing it and being successful, what they don't realise is them players have played probably thousands of hands together. If you know your opponents, fine. 
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!! : +1  .. a lot of people see the higher stakes player doing it and being successful, what they don't realise is them players have played probably thousands of hands together. If you know your opponents, fine. 
    Posted by percival09
    to both yourself and the guy youve commented.

    The button is the most profitable seat in poker, simples.

    I play low stakes cash, and i rekon raising any two is almost profitable here. 74s givess us options, if we dont take it down pre we can hit flushes and straights. Its onlu a suited double gapper. Its no different to say, J8s. These hands are actually probably even more profitable at these stakes than at the higher stakes because of the times we outflop our opponents and their not good enough to fold their middling pocket pair. 

     
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!! : to both yourself and the guy youve commented. The button is the most profitable seat in poker, simples. I play low stakes cash, and i rekon raising any two is almost profitable here. 74s givess us options, if we dont take it down pre we can hit flushes and straights. Its onlu a suited double gapper. Its no different to say, J8s. These hands are actually probably even more profitable at these stakes than at the higher stakes because of the times we outflop our opponents and their not good enough to fold their middling pocket pair.   
    Posted by The_Don90
    Obv the btn is most profitable position, that doesnt neccesarily mean we can open any 2, and if we are opening 74s its getting very close to opening any 2

    74s is different to J8s as the pairs it flops arent as strong. Obv we can flop flushes and straights, doesnt happen too often though, how good it is when we flop a draw depends heavily on opponent.

    I can see situations to open 74s on btn, mainly against nits and guys who fold lots to cbets. I think the guys wo call light pre and call down with mediocre holdings are not the guys to do it against.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!! : Obv the btn is most profitable position, that doesnt neccesarily mean we can open any 2, and if we are opening 74s its getting very close to opening any 2 74s is different to J8s as the pairs it flops arent as strong. Obv we can flop flushes and straights, doesnt happen too often though, how good it is when we flop a draw depends heavily on opponent. I can see situations to open 74s on btn, mainly against nits and guys who fold lots to cbets. I think the guys wo call light pre and call down with mediocre holdings are not the guys to do it against.
    Posted by grantorino
    Right ok. When i flop ONE PAIR with 74s im likley to fold, and i think the OP is good enough to aswell. Secondly 74 isnt that much differance to J8 when flopping one pair. One pair is at the bottom of the charts.

    I dont think anyone in the right mind is seriously raising 74s because they think they have the best hand, but simply because they can rep something that beats their opponents hand therefore we take it down without showdown. On the occassions when they cant we can hit straights, flushes, 2 pair, trips etc.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!! : Right ok. When i flop ONE PAIR with 74s im likley to fold, and i think the OP is good enough to aswell. Secondly 74 isnt that much differance to J8 when flopping one pair. One pair is at the bottom of the charts. I dont think anyone in the right mind is seriously raising 74s because they think they have the best hand, but simply because they can rep something that beats their opponents hand therefore we take it down without showdown. On the occassions when they cant we can hit straights, flushes, 2 pair, trips etc.
    Posted by The_Don90
    Why are you folding when you flop a pair? bet/foldingI assume. Im not saing you should go broke when you flop 1 pair, but there is a difference between J8 and 74 in a heads up pot btn v blind where both peoples holdings are often pretty  marginal 

    If we can take pot without showdown great, if we can hit miracle flops great, it all depends how often it happens.  Not often enough imo aginst the stationy types that inhabit microstakes cash tables. I would prefer opening K2 than small suited cards against these guys.
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!! : Why are you folding when you flop a pair? bet/foldingI assume. Im not saing you should go broke when you flop 1 pair, but there is a difference between J8 and 74 in a heads up pot btn v blind where both peoples holdings are often pretty  marginal  If we can take pot without showdown great, if we can hit miracle flops great, it all depends how often it happens.  Not often enough imo aginst the stationy types that inhabit microstakes cash tables. I would prefer opening K2 than small suited cards against these guys.
    Posted by grantorino
    no i play every hand based on situation, im comfortable playing in posision to stationy types. Now im very rarley going broke with one pair, simply because (maybe i do fold too much) but i can lay top pair down. How often is One Pair good when we have this size of pot(in terms of blinds) anyways.

    Now im not going to get caught up in this debate any more, unless someone else responds, simply because its clear we have a differance of opinion.
  • edited April 2011
    flopping tp with j8 on 8xx is rather much better than floppin tp with 7,4 we are talking kickers kids
  • ybyb
    edited April 2011
    also when we flop a pair with j8 its much more likely to be top pair than when we flop a pair with 74. I'd still be opening with 74s otb fwiw, not sure if its +EV at micros though.
  • edited April 2011
    some good points chaps, def right about turn bet. why sooo much hate offshoot, i watch you on nl300 and think"man this guys good" and all i get is abuse from you. how about  your post reading " to be fair pod your turn bet should have been bigger, and i have noticed a big leak in your game, when ever you hit big you bet small, which is costing you money. hope this helps, offshoot". this way you get respect as a player and a person. please remember i am a recreational player who plays for fun, had a good laugh last night with ozzie, dylan corbett and trebor and i thought i would share a few hands, im all for people giving advice , thats what the clinic is for, but please less of the "its sooo lol" not a good look!
  • edited April 2011
    i think hes sick to death with your bet sizing and how many times you have been politely told about it sort it out you tard pody lol
  • edited April 2011
    i know its a problem nick, it is getting better honest!! looked back at some of my posts from last year and it makes me cringe., and for a player of his stature this bet sizing must look horrific, but there is still no need to be rude. i even have a posted note on my screen with "bet bigger" on it!! trying to go from a nitty trappy player into a "proper" cash player isnt as easy as i thought it would be. as you know i only started playing cash5mnths ago.
  • edited April 2011

    its still no excuse, good players such as him gain no benefit what so ever posting on micro threads, hes not here to make friends nor gain respect hes just here to get a few quid end of so when he gives free advice personally i would be making the most of it
    having said all that i do admit your betting is so much better than before but going back to the hand you bet the pot on flop and a few said that wasn't great but i think vs bad players its good your setting up the turn were you can get so much more money in but then you waste the opportunity,
    it might not sound much to you a couple of quid here and there but it makes a ton of difference at the end of the week/month/year whatever

    think about the times were you get your whole stack in behind AA vs flopped set and coolers etc, when you do hit big hands you need to get the up most max from it (you need to win more than you lose obviously), sometimes you get paid and sometimes you don't but over the long run you will make more money, DO NOT be worried about losing your customer more so vs bad players just try and get as much as you can in the middle, vs better players you can think about balance more but still go for the max you think you can get
  • edited April 2011
    message received and understood, noone is more fustrated at this leak than i am i assure you. thanks again phil
  • edited April 2011
    also another thing, when you get advice don't just accept it just because its from a better player you need to fully understand their reasoning, some players just reply "i would 3bet" "that's a fold" basically they are inviting you to question them, ask them to justify their logic and keep asking questions till you fully understand, also it would be more constructive to post less hands and leave less advice on other players threads instead question the good players who post advice keep asking and keep learning
  • edited April 2011
    Ok, The Don ....

    You think opening the button every hand no matter what 2 cards you have is profitable and i quote 'because of theamount of times we outflop our opponents who wont fold' ... you hit a flop statistically 1 every 3 times, therefore we cannot assume that this is a profitable move, at all. And the fact that weaker players wont fold probably makes me more likely NOT to open the button with any two, if these lower stakes players are as weak as your making out, why would you want to go in a pot with garbage against them when they'll call you down? Without doubt -EV !!

    It's such weak play opening with small connectors, firing out a C-bet, getting called, and shutting down. You're bleeding money away, even if you win the occasional pot by double barreling, it's not profitable. The players you see doing it every Saturday night on the cash tables have a fairly accurate understanding of their opponents calling range and how they play. 
  • edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 bottles of wine and a nice stack helps!!!:
    Ok, The Don .... You think opening the button every hand no matter what 2 cards you have is profitable and i quote 'because of the amount of times we outflop  our opponents who  wont fold ' ... you hit a flop statistically 1 every 3 times, therefore we cannot assume that this is a profitable move, at all. And the fact that weaker players wont fold probably makes me more likely NOT to open the button with any two, if these lower stakes players are as weak as your making out, why would you want to go in a pot with garbage against them when they'll call you down? Without doubt -EV !! It's such weak play opening with small connectors, firing out a C-bet, getting called, and shutting down. You're bleeding money away, even if you win the occasional pot by double barreling, it's not profitable. The players you see doing it every Saturday night on the cash tables have a fairly accurate understanding of their opponents calling range and how they play. 
    Posted by percival09
    DID I STATE I OPENED EVERY BUTTON???

    NO

    What i stated is everytime its FOLDED to me. Simples. Theres a differance. If theirs a limper i likley fold.

    Now im not getting involved in this anymore.
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