PLO 5p/10p- I fold the nuts, Dohhhhhh gets stacked. discuss

GREGHOGG

i know i should fold pre. (i called pre to mess about with dohhhhhh as he had been raising a lot!)

but look at this turn card action. Am i technically correct to fold the temporary nuts?

Also why does Dohhhhhhh "run so bad*", he had two flush draws!? (*his words, not mine)

DOHHHHHHH Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £43.91 GREGHOGG Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £26.03   Your hole cards 9 4 9 8       snapuk Call  £0.10 £0.25 £6.89 dadov7 Fold     colthedog Fold     MANXIE1 Fold     DOHHHHHHH Raise  £0.35 £0.60 £43.56 GREGHOGG Call  £0.30 £0.90 £25.73 snapuk Call  £0.30 £1.20 £6.59 Flop    5 7 J       DOHHHHHHH Check     GREGHOGG Check     snapuk Check     Turn    10       DOHHHHHHH Bet  £1.00 £2.20 £42.56 GREGHOGG Raise  £3.40 £5.60 £22.33 snapuk All-in  £6.59 £12.19 £0.00 DOHHHHHHH Raise  £23.37 £35.56 £19.19 GREGHOGG Fold     DOHHHHHHH Unmatched bet  £17.78 £17.78 £36.97 DOHHHHHHH Show 8 7 9 J    snapuk Show 9 Q 10 2    River    K       snapuk Win Straight to the King £17.08  £17.08

DeucesLive

Well, firstly I think it's an excellent fold, actually. You have a sum total of zero redraws- no cards on the river can help you- and there's a huge chance someone else has the exact same straight, but with redraws available. The fact Dohhhh was so happy to chuck his stack in meant he almost definitely has the nuts with redraws, so you'd be calling to split.

You can instantly say that any diamond or any spade on the river will kill your hand, so that's basically 50% of the deck straight away. The flush draws are almost a guarantee. Then any 8, 9, Q, K or A has a big chance of knocking you off the best hand, as the connecting cards are going to be very popular. Any 5, 7, 10 or J could also ruin you, they're probably the least likely here but still a big enough factor. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, only a non spade/diamond 2/3/4/6 doesn't change the hand at all, so there's a total of 8 safe cards out there. Against one player, I might be tempted and think my hand could be good at showdown, against two I'm pretty sure their combination of outs will get there.

Oh, and UL Dohhh. Bit of a sickener for you really, you had almost the best hand possible on turn I think. Snapuk is a bit of a donk by the looks of it.

N1CK

dohhh had the nutz with double doobie blockers lol

DOHHHHHHH

full house draw, 45 flush draws, straight flush draw and the nuts.

bluddi stoooopid game

LOL_RAISE

lol how did you lose this dohh

N1CK

this thread is defo a rubdown.

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: PLO 5p/10p- I fold the nuts, Dohhhhhh gets stacked. discuss:

this thread is defo a rubdown.
Posted by N1CK

he loves it tho!

tbh, i'm just waiting for Talon to wet himself with excitement that someone folded the nuts... correctly...

HartshorN

Rather than the "correct" fold, i believe it's a well thought out fold, numerous of outdraws, and with the action that's happened your probably looking at a split at best.

However, you have the nuts so you are in a winning position, so i wouldn't call it the correct fold.

As for Doh's beat... oh dear lol

Yipppeeee Omaha!!

darich

This must be the reason that I'm cack at Omhaha. I snap call...
 
I can't bring myself to fold the nuts with one card to come....obviously my opinion differs with both turn and river to come, but my mentality is that I have to be ahead right now, so why would I fold??

Better stick to hold 'em :-)

DeucesLive

See though, in omaha I disagree- you can very much have the 'temporary nuts' and be mathematically behind, it's not the same as holdem. Folding the nuts can sometimes be a correct move in omaha, though I think that'd normally be on the flop.

If you have no redraws available, and there are more cards in the deck that ruin your hand, then folding the nuts can definitely be a good idea.

Take this as an example- board comes 478, 2 hearts 1 spade. You're sat holding AA56, no hearts no spades. Player opposite you is holding 569T, with 2 hearts and 2 spades.

Now any 5, 6, 9, T, J makes your opponent a superior straight, as well as any heart- 22 outs. Also, if a spade hits on the turn, he has a further 4 outs on top. You may have the nuts here, but your opponent not only has the identical nuts, but a stack of redraws that means he's freerolling to win the hand outright, knowing he's splitting at worst with you.

In the actual hand above, Dohhh has (just compared to hoggers, disregarding snap for now) 9 spades and 8 diamonds for a win, and any 8, 9 or Q for a win (another 4 outs) and 2 7's and J's, giving him 25 outs to win, and the rest to split. Greg knows that he's calling to split at best, and all those redraws mean that his hand has far less than 50% chance to be good at the end. He has no idea he has all those outs, but he can at least guess that Dohhhh has a few outs for a better straight and one flush draw.

Fantastic omaha fold, and a great example of how to fold the nuts in omaha. I just hope Talon doesn't wander in and say it's a terrible fold now and make me look a total plonker. ^^

DOHHHHHHH

I just put this on an odds thing and I was only 72%

I need to be at least 90% to hold nowardays, so it's not as bad as I first thought.

Talon

 Sorry greg but i have seen nothing in the hand to get really excited about. Your play was pretty much spot on on all streets. i Like the raise on the turn and as soon as the answer comes back from 2 places you were right to fold your dead nuts because at best you would only be looking at a split and there were too many cards to avoid.

  The only surprise in anyway was the action on the flop.JJ had raised preflop and hit the flop about as hard as he could have hoped for with top2, FD and a double belly buster. He then chose to check this instead of trying to get money into the pot. Allowing people to get free cards is never a good idea and you should always be looking to build the pot with big draws as it makes it much juicier for when they do come in. The winner of the pot had third nut flush draw and a gutshot on this flop and a call of a pot sized bet at this stage would have been very loose indeed.It is probably the second biggest mistake i see on the PLO tables seeing people check or check/call with big draws hoping to get lucky and then wondering why they dont get paid off when they hit because they have telegraphed their hand.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: PLO 5p/10p- I fold the nuts, Dohhhhhh gets stacked. discuss:

 Sorry greg but i have seen nothing in the hand to get really excited about. Your play was pretty much spot on on all streets. i Like the raise on the turn and as soon as the answer comes back from 2 places you were right to fold your dead nuts because at best you would only be looking at a split and there were too many cards to avoid.   The only surprise in anyway was the action on the flop.JJ had raised preflop and hit the flop about as hard as he could have hoped for with top2, FD and a double belly buster. He then chose to check this instead of trying to get money into the pot. Allowing people to get free cards is never a good idea and you should always be looking to build the pot with big draws as it makes it much juicier for when they do come in. The winner of the pot had third nut flush draw and a gutshot on this flop and a call of a pot sized bet at this stage would have been very loose indeed.It is probably the second biggest mistake i see on the PLO tables seeing people check or check/call with big draws hoping to get lucky and then wondering why they dont get paid off when they hit because they have telegraphed their hand.
Posted by Talon

He prob would have folded.

I took the "get the nuts, then get 178xbb in the middle as a 72% favourite" line instead!

Must do better DOHHHHHHH! I prob wud bet the flop now tho.