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dangerous sets. any advice?

beeasyonmebeeasyonme
edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Very hard one, i have had this problem on a few occasions. on a couple i get it all in flop and you will have 10 outs on turn if you dont house up. On occasions i have just flatted but i dont think you can really, would like more opinions on this also......
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  • beeasyonmebeeasyonme
    edited April 2011
    recently i have hit 3 sets on flushing boards and only won one, i have lost quite big on two and now i have no idea how to play when i hit my set against this
    fudallas Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £36.16
    beeasyonme Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £22.57
      Your hole cards
    • 7
    • 7
    		     
    GIFTER Raise  £0.60 £0.90 £43.26
    saints01 Fold     
    sheila1960 Fold     
    fudallas Call  £0.50 £1.40 £35.66
    beeasyonme Call  £0.40 £1.80 £22.17
    Flop
       
    • 4
    • Q
    • 7
    		     
    fudallas Check     
    beeasyonme Bet  £1.80 £3.60 £20.37
    GIFTER Call  £1.80 £5.40 £41.46
    fudallas Fold     
    Turn
       
    • 3
    		     
    beeasyonme Bet  £5.40 £10.80 £14.97
    GIFTER Fold     
    beeasyonme Muck     
    beeasyonme Win  £5.13  £20.10
    beeasyonme Return  £5.40 £0.27 £25.50
    younggoogi Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £7.47
    iwanttocal Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £8.90
      Your hole cards
    • 6
    • 6
    		     
    geoff1976 Fold     
    sounddd Fold     
    beeasyonme Call  £0.10 £0.25 £25.70
    APRIL49 Call  £0.10 £0.35 £22.33
    younggoogi Call  £0.05 £0.40 £7.42
    iwanttocal Check     
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • 4
    • 6
    		     
    younggoogi Check     
    iwanttocal Bet  £0.30 £0.70 £8.60
    beeasyonme Raise  £1.30 £2.00 £24.40
    APRIL49 Fold     
    younggoogi Fold     
    iwanttocal All-in  £8.60 £10.60 £0.00
    beeasyonme Call  £7.60 £18.20 £16.80
    iwanttocal Show
    • 5
    • 3
    		   
    beeasyonme Show
    • 6
    • 6
    		   
    Turn
       
    • Q
    		     
    River
       
    • J
    		     
    iwanttocal Win Flush to the Queen £16.83  £16.83
    the 3rd one is no longer in my hand history but i was holding 22. I call to a 5xBB as does one other FLOP 2d qd jd. I put in a pot size raise hoping to end the betting or even getting flat called to see the next card, i get reraised by initial raiser so i flat (probably should of just shoved) TURN 8d i get shoved so i fold. When ever this happens now im stuck i dont know whether to fire out, check to see more cards and as you can see the one i have won, iv won alot less than i would want after hitting a set
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  • kevkojak1kevkojak1
    edited April 2011
    With these mid pairs I will raise pre 2.5/3.5 BB's depending on position to fold out the trash. 
    If the set comes on the flop, bet again to see where you are - take control of the pot. 

    Players who've played two decent suited cards and flop a flush will either raise (telling you where you are) or call giving you a free card to re-draw to the full house.

    Players chasing a flush with three on the board is ok, they'll get there 40% of the time or so, but again, you still have the re-draw to the boat and they'll miss often enough to make it profitable long term to play to the river.

    I have to be honest, I'm not often folding a flopped set. The reason we play these rag pairs is to make the third.
    Getting beaten when holding these hands is just a cooler IMO. Unless the board is looking really dangerous, maybe three suited connected cards, I'm getting as much as I think I can get away with in the middle.

    In your second example 5 3 simply should not have been allowed to see a flop. A nice big pre-flop raise should have shifted him.
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  • beeasyonmebeeasyonme
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: dangerous sets. any advice?:
    With these mid pairs I will raise pre 2.5/3.5 BB's depending on position to fold out the trash.  If the set comes on the flop, bet again to see where you are - take control of the pot.  Players who've played two decent suited cards and flop a flush will either raise (telling you where you are) or call giving you a free card to re-draw to the full house. Players chasing a flush with three on the board is ok, they'll get there 40% of the time or so, but again, you still have the re-draw to the boat and they'll miss often enough to make it profitable long term to play to the river. I have to be honest, I'm not often folding a flopped set. The reason we play these rag pairs is to make the third. Getting beaten when holding these hands is just a cooler IMO. Unless the board is looking really dangerous, maybe three suited connected cards, I'm getting as much as I think I can get away with in the middle. In your second example 5 3 simply should not have been allowed to see a flop. A nice big pre-flop raise should have shifted him.
    Posted by kevkojak1
    right i play the same way i allways raise PP or flat to a raise, the reason i dont do this on my 2nd example is because of the table history and a 4xBB raise could easily of not shifted 5 3.

    I posted this question on the forum as i have only ever won small and lost big when this happens so i would'nt say hitting your set and still losing is just a cooler in these situations
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  • AcidMan27AcidMan27
    edited April 2011
    In my opinion you played these fine. You charged them  to hit their flush draws which is all you can do really.

    Just unlucky for you.


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  • BigRonnieCBigRonnieC
    edited April 2011
    You are only looking at the strength of your hand though and not that of the other players. If a board comes 3 to a straight or 3 to a flush you have to think in terms of the possibility that your hand might not be the best hand and is quite vulnerable.

    This should be borne in mind when you decide how to act on the post-flop betting.

    If you raise and get called, the caller probably has a high card to the flush or a made flush with a high card.

    If you raise and get reraised it could be a made flush with lower rank cards where they are seeking to protect the hand from a higher flush.

    That's obviously just the tip of the iceberg. Many people slow play flushes through the streets hoping an opponent's hand will improve to get more value. A caller to your raise might also think for this reason (you would try to trap not bet with such a strong hand) that you are bluffing.


    I'll leave it to more experienced players to guide further but if you make a large bet and get called or raised you'll have to be ready to put the hand down. Admittedly I find this hard too.
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  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop
    edited April 2011
    First hand I would of played the same.

    Second raise pre, then I would of done same. ul.


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  • rancidrancid
    edited April 2011
    I was talking about this today when you flop a set but a flush draw flops.
    Even though you want max value from your set you don't want to give away free cards.

    My advice:
    In a multi way pot you have to bet it, heads up you can slow play it and let em catch up.
    Other than that they kinda play themselfs, try and get it all in as quick as possible )
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