what is more skillful cash or tournament poker

hamster880

Hi

I Was wondering what people think is more difficult  cash or tournament poker (and what is more profitable). It seems that they are often very different. I.e  patience is key in cash, whereas aggression is more important in tourament (when the blinds get large anyway). And are the skills transferable. What are peoples thoughts??

grantorino

cash is more skillful imo as you are usually deeper and have to play every street. Tournament poker is often shallow stacked and most decisions are made pre and on the flop. Aggression is also key in cash.  Tournament poker has some different skills such as playing the bubble etc. I would think in general though a good cash player will nearly always be a good tournament player also, but Im not sure the reverse is the case

DOHHHHHHH

I'd have thought aggression is more important in tournys than cash?

I never used to, but since listening to "proper" players, they seem to call alot more than they raise, especially post flop?

Either way, good cash players r more skillfull by a mile.

grantorino

Maybe aggression is slightly more important in tournament poker. Thats just a result of stacksize though, you cant really flat raises 15BB deep and also  relative hand strength increases when spr is low. Also protecting your hand is more important in tournament poker. People call more in cash games because stacking off with 1 pair in a single raised pot 100BB deep is usually going to be bad against a good player, ie raising something like QJ on a Jxx flop is much more likely to get called by worse in a short stacked tournament situation than when we have 90BB behind

GREGHOGG

As im now a cash player, i have to say cash innit

The_Don90

In honesty i play both so i feel comfortable writing a detailed response here.

Tournaments: This is where i started out and im a winning low stake player, aggression isnt always the best code of conduct in them but generally the most aggressive wins, just ask the likes of MickJenn1 and Wacko90 their records speak for them selves purley down to aggression. However if your faced with and aggessive player you can adapt and that can win you a tournament.

Cash: As stated i started out in MTT's and ive found cash extremely difficult to adapt to. I cant actuall play cash on 6 max yet, although im making small profits on 9 seater cash (3 extra fish to fry helps lol). As many have stated ive found that cash is a whole different ball game. Adapting your game for every single hand is important, knowing your opponent is more important than it ever will be in an MTT purley based on your with the guy longer your read can be more exact and your more likley to meet them again. Youve also got to remember not only how youve played this session v the opponent, but how youve played in the past v them aswell. Image is worth more than anything in cash imo.

Dudeskin8

Cash by a country mile.

Talon

  For my opinion on this i would have to say that neither is more skillful than the other. This is because although the game is fundamentally the same and some traits are transferable between the 2, the skillsets involved in each discipline are different.

 In cash you would need to be more adept at player reading and playing down the streets, whereas in tournaments the blind stealing/preflop aggression and the ability to change gears becomes more necessary.So for this reason i dont believe you can directly compare the two formats to say which is the most skillful because they are both skillful in their own way.

   As to the question of which is the most profitable then i would have to say cash. Any player who is good enough and is properly rolled can make a good living playing cash but this is much harder to achieve in tournies with the high variance and the top heavy payouts.

Eyeman

+1

Like comparing rugby union and rugby league. Some players can transfer to both, but pure cash players are generally better at that, and likewise pure tournament players.

I make a decent (nothing staggering) profit on MTTs, and can't win at cash (and so don't bother).

Maybe that proves cash players are better, but it's those same players that I beat in the MTTs (sometimes)

hamster880

This is interesting getting a wide view of opinions. It seems that although the games are fundamentally the same, the skillset are very different. I play both, and think athough both types of players can switch and be profitable at both, i do think the best tournament players (cannot play the same level of cash play) and vice versa.

I dont know about the comments about reading people and cash players are better at that. On cash tables you play with the same people more and you have more streets of information to put your player on a hand so ofcourse they are going to be easier to read. Arguable (though im not sure about this) the best tourament players are better at reading (as they have less streets - preflop and the flop to put someone on a hand) and they have to read more players (as there is a higher turnaround).

Im still not sure what is more skillful and profitable though LOL

Sky_Dave

Cash games tend to allow a player to get experience playing deeper stacked. You're often playing <100BBs deep, so you need to learn how to extract maximum value from a hand even more in cash than in tourneys, IMO. 

That said, winning tournaments is an art in itself. Knowing which moves to make, when to start making them and who against is a tricky one. The increasing blinds might lead to more push and fold situations, but getting a grip on the changing dynamic those blinds bring is not to be underestimated.

If I were to come off the fence, I'd say cash is more skillful in that it will lead to more difficult decision making processes over the course of a year. I'd definitely give tournament players a lot of respect for being good at what they do, though.

YOUNG_GUN

Cash is more skilled, i suck at it lol

In short you get more recreation players in tourneys and they dont understand whats the correct +Ev move

I think the main thing is if your playing both depends on your mindset, if your up for a grind cash is probably best. if ur slightly hungover tourneys are fine in my experiance. sometimes mix in heads up sit n go's if your feeling proper aggro
 

ajs4385

The more big blinds you have the more skill is involved.

N1CK

In Response to Re: what is more skillful cash or tournament poker:

The more big blinds you have the more skill is involved.
Posted by ajs4385

this sums it up

Eyeman

So the begiining of a tournament is the same as cash, but the end is facile?

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: what is more skillful cash or tournament poker:

So the begiining of a tournament is the same as cash, but the end is facile?
Posted by Eyeman

No not at all imho, its more important in tourneys to pick up on weak players early on where as in cash its not as important as quick . although you still need to but in touraments they only have 1 life also they may get moved so just get as many chips as you can of them before that happens. Cash they may still have 1 life but different ballgame i think

DOHHHHHHH

In tournys you can sit tight and wait for the blinds to go up. Often tourny specialists wont start playing hands until the average stack is around 20xbb, some literally sit there doing nothing until they have 10xbb then shove/re-shove or fold.

All the time you hear about nits basically "sitting out" for the first hour.

Why ask for deep structures then sit there waiting until the average stack is shallow? Baffling.

In cash theres no getting away from it, you're gonna have to play flops turns and rivers with lots of big blinds behind.

N1CK

poker is a pretty easy game with 20 BBs 100+ and you will have some tough decisions, i think a good cash player could learn and do well in mtts than an mtt player switching to cash

YOUNG_GUN

Dis-agree JJ son, u may sit out first 10 levels, but i find first 2 levels easiest time to get chips

AMYBR

Jamie Gold beat biggest tournament field ever.

Through skill or through luck?  Answers probably there somewhere

rancid

I think and find they require two very differant mindsets.
The skills are simliar but cash is a more thoughtfull game.
So in essence cash is more skillfull as your potentially playing big pots being 100 - 200 BB deep.
You also have more post flop desicions to make unlike 80% of tournamnet hands which are pre spots.

Tournament poker starts off like a cash game if your deep but turns into a simple shove/fold strategy which we all know does not require that much skill just big balls.
A cash game player can easily adapt to tournement poker but the same can not be said of tournament players.

LOL_RAISE

cash will make you a better poker player overall, but i think they are equally 'skillful'

TommyD

Cash is art.  Tournies are science.

Two fundamentally different skill sets and IMO putting them together is incorrect.

RogueCell

In Response to Re: what is more skillful cash or tournament poker:

Cash is art.  Tournies are science. Two fundamentally different skill sets and IMO putting them together is incorrect.
Posted by TommyD

+1 for this

+10 for science

YOUNG_GUN

that doesn't make sense i was rubbish in science

hamster880

Not quite sure what that means. Though if i was going to go with your analogy i would say it would be the other way round tournaments are an art, cash is a science. lol

offshoot

both require skill, tournies require more luck