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Fact or Fiction?

edited June 2011 in Area 51


Lets suppose you have a poker site,which is a skin off a cage off a large network,and all the players are really good,so they win,great!!! 

but,oh,hold on,the web boss has found out,and says to you,look mate you cant have people winning ,or they will take all the money we could have had as rake...and besides if you take out more money than the losing donks deposit,we are going to fine your company...





Comments

  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Fact or Fiction?:
    Lets suppose you have a poker site,which is a skin off a cage off a large network,and all the players are really good,so they win,great!!!  but,oh,hold on,the web boss has found out,and says to you,look mate you cant have people winning ,or they will take all the money we could have had as rake...and besides if you take out more money than the losing donks deposit,we are going to fine your company...
    Posted by djblacke04

    You are getting there bud. Perhaps you should start your own site....... DJ poker.com. I think it;s quite easy to set up a skin, problem will be getting enough ppl to play on the site.

    I would play, as long as it's not rigged :0)
  • edited May 2011
    if they somehow happens,they will all stay and pay tonnes of rake, skin will pay lots of money to network,  so everyone makes money

    seriously whats ur point?
  • edited May 2011


    i think the most important fact,is that if your skin has too many winning players,they stop it.

    If i made a poker site,it would have a lot of good players and some bad players,but they would not be any,donk protection,or a first deposit luck streak.....

    there would be none of this playing 1 or 2 games only and winning the big tournements...never to play again...

    they would be no guaranteed tournements that (even tho all the regulars there) won by some mysterious 1st time player...

    and people would not spend most of their time moaning how often action hands pop out...

    not too much to ask is it...:)




  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    if they somehow happens,they will all stay and pay tonnes of rake, skin will pay lots of money to network,  so everyone makes money seriously whats ur point?
    Posted by grantorino
    He's asking if this scenario could happen - or has happened. (I know it has).

    The poker room had a high percentage of winning players. This was unacceptable to the network they operated within and they were effectively fined. As strange as it might seem players with large amounts of money on site are not desirable for two reasons.

    1. They are likely to withdraw large amounts at any time.
    2. The money tied in their account has low earning value for the site compared to that same money circulating and earning rake. Moderate winners and losers are the desired customer base.
  • edited May 2011
                       F I X .. in ur sad eyes,, Keep playing u will come good soonish im sure,,LOL LOL
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
                       F I X .. in ur sad eyes,, Keep playing u will come good soonish im sure,,LOL LOL
    Posted by topdrawer
    What are you prattling on about?

    I can see the lights are on......... but there's nobody at home is there?
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
                       F I X .. in ur sad eyes,, Keep playing u will come good soonish im sure,,LOL LOL
    Posted by topdrawer
    YOUR HERE 3 WEEKS /
    PLAYED 7 GAMES LOST £15 ,
    MAYBE YOU WILL COME GOOD LOL
  • edited May 2011
    As this seems to have gone over some peoples heads let's just look at what DJ is talking about.

    A well known site, which was part of a well known network, had a stable of very good players. They are all forum regulars of the site and as such they are on the whole winning players. There are some ''high rollers'' in there too. They for the most part have substantial bankrolls and probably withdraw on a regular basis.

    All well and good you would think - it's what poker sites are for. But hold on, this network doesn't like profitable players, what it wants are moderately losing or break even players because that's where sites make their money - regular depositors, money circulating around the site, generating rake and keeping everyone interested enough to continue playing. Big winners only spoil all that. They put the punters in their place, let them know who's boss and that puts a lot of punters off the game and they disappear. That's not good for business!

    So the network decided to impose fines on the site with the over-abundance of good players. If they (the good players) withdrew over a limit that the network had deemed profitable, the site was fined. This of course made it impossible for the site to continue as a viable proposition on that network. This is a factual story of a site on the iPoker network, part-owned by a well know poker analyst.

    I think the point DJ is trying to get across is that poker sites make money by having moderate losers and winners and not by having huge winners and losers. Equalisation makes good business sense.
  • edited May 2011
    fair point elsa, but it certainly would be very unusual for a site to have more big winners than moderate winners and losers. Equalisation should happen naturally in most cases

    Also big winners play big volume so big rake and often have substantial money in their a/cs. This is surely worth a lot to sites/networks?
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    fair point elsa, but it certainly would be very unusual for a site to have more big winners than moderate winners and losers. Equalisation should happen naturally in most cases Also big winners play big volume so big rake and often have substantial money in their a/cs. This is surely worth a lot to sites/networks?
    Posted by grantorino


    It is unusual but remember that this was one site (skin) off a very large network (of cages).

    Big volumes of games by individuals don't make big rake. Having one top player on 15 tables and skinning the other players earns far less rake than 15 tables of equally skilled players where the money circulates for much longer and thereby earns more rake.  Big players also go where there are rakeback deals - these deals were the norm for a period and were brought in to attract the big players. The fact is the sites make a greater profit with a large pool of fish than a pool with a few sharks in it.

  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction? : It is unusual but remember that this was one site (skin) off a very large network (of cages). Big volumes of games by individuals don't make big rake. Having one top player on 15 tables and skinning the other players earns far less rake than 15 tables of equally skilled players where the money circulates for much longer and thereby earns more rake.  Big players also go where there are rakeback deals - these deals were the norm for a period and were brought in to attract the big players. The fact is the sites make a greater profit with a large pool of fish than a pool with a few sharks in it.
    Posted by elsadog
    Yeah, I would imagine site this happened to must have offered big rb deals,bonuses etc

    I dont fully understand how poker sites/networks operate so Im not saying you are wrong on any of this. I understand that long term moderate winners and losers are better for sites than big winners/big losers. But the bit you have bolded isn't really how poker works, big winners dont sit down and skin all other players almost instantly, the money still circulates for a long time anyway due to variance etc, bad players reload and players playing large volume of hands has to help offset this anyway
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction? : Yeah, I would imagine site this happened to must have offered big rb deals,bonuses etc I dont fully understand how poker sites/networks operate so Im not saying you are wrong on any of this. I understand that long term moderate winners and losers are better for sites than big winners/big losers. But the bit you have bolded isn't really how poker works, big winners dont sit down and skin all other players almost instantly, the money still circulates for a long time anyway due to variance etc, bad players reload and players playing large volume of hands has to help offset this anyway
    Posted by grantorino
    What do you think the average rake is from every dollar deposited into a site?

    As far as rakeback on that site - no I don't think they did. Anyway as far as I know rakeback deals are between the site and the player not the cage or network and the player.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction? : What do you think the average rake is from every dollar deposited into a site? As far as rakeback on that site - no I don't think they did. Anyway as far as I know rakeback deals are between the site and the player not the cage or network and the player.
    Posted by elsadog
    No idea rake/$

    I know rb is between site and player, I would think rb attracts higher than average players to a network though as fish dont know what it is and it makes a huge difference to hi volume players
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction? : No idea rake/$ I know rb is between site and player, I would think rb attracts higher than average players to a network though as fish dont know what it is and it makes a huge difference to hi volume players
    Posted by grantorino

    Apparently the average rake from EVERY dollar deposited onto PStars is in excess of 45% - that's on EVERY dollar that comes into the site.

    High volume players are vastly outnumbered by the fish. The fish generate more rake. Big players vs fish in the sites eyes = no competition - fish FTW.

    Anyone care to guess who the well known analyst is?

  • edited May 2011
    Part of the problem was 2 of the large skins are also financially involved with Playtech/Ipoker,they spend a lot of money advertising to attract new players and if the new players are constantly losing they leave so there is no return on investment.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Fact or Fiction?:
    Part of the problem was 2 of the large skins are also financially involved with Playtech/Ipoker,they spend a lot of money advertising to attract new players and if the new players are constantly losing they leave so there is no return on investment.
    Posted by -Dino66-

    Correct. The sites don't want new players losing - at least not too much too quickly. They also want to retain the custom of the ''lesser skilled'' players. If they go bust too soon or too often they will also leave. Keep 'em warm seems to be the way.

  • edited June 2011


    also , just as a point,why would it matter if people won,surely thats the idea..?
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