You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!

Got a barrage of abuse for this.....

edited May 2011 in The Poker Clinic
not just from seat 5 but from other seats also. I was called a fish, donk amongst other names, therefore it begs the question. Have I missed their point or did they miss mine. 

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceLilDevilSmall blind £0.04£0.04£15.20BIGDICKRICBig blind £0.08£0.12£5.55 Your hole cards97   lordgee12Fold    2776reed06Fold    yuranASSetRaise £0.40£0.52£10.30LilDevilRaise £1.04£1.56£14.16BIGDICKRICFold    yuranASSetCall £0.68£2.24£9.62Flop  785   LilDevilBet £3.20£5.44£10.96yuranASSetAll-in £9.62£15.06£0.00LilDevilCall £6.42£21.48£4.54LilDevilShowKA   yuranASSetShow97   Turn  K   River  4   yuranASSetWinFlush to the 9£20.08 £20.08
I ended up sitting at the table trying to defend the play but it fell on deaf ears. I should have just apologized and carried on.

Views please.  Thank You
«1

Comments

  • edited May 2011

    Interesting play pre but hey ho worked out in the end :)

  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    Interesting play pre but hey ho worked out in the end :)
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    Hi Young Gun, thx for your input, but interesting how? if you don't mind me asking. How would you be playing this? All views appreciated regardless of what view you take, this is really just about improving my game and learning lessons.

    Thx in advance.
  • edited May 2011
    pre flop was "different" but once you made your mind up to play it this way you got your money in ahead with plenty of outs to improve. as to the abuse, smile ,you know you riled them and just set about taking more off them(just wouldnt try that move for awhile mind.   phil
  • edited May 2011
    i'd prob raise less 32p, id prob fold after re-raise just looking for dream flop which isnt going to happen very often. problem is if you play hands like this then your going to get abuse especially in the above hand. not terrible but if you do it often your going to miss more then you hit
  • edited May 2011
    You should be abusing him for his disgraceful flop bet
  • edited May 2011
    Okay, point taking, and I do agree that 4xbb would be enough. However, I was taking into account the size of the 3bet and when I seen it my eyes looked straight at her stack size which was the grounds for making the the call. Otherwise I may well be laying this down preflop with no history.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    pre flop was "different" but once you made your mind up to play it this way you got your money in ahead with plenty of outs to improve. as to the abuse, smile ,you know you riled them and just set about taking more off them(just wouldnt try that move for awhile mind.   phil
    Posted by pod1

    Noted, haha Thx Phil.

    Joe

  • edited May 2011
    pre is fine imo

    flop is fine.

    Dont tap on the aquarium
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    You should be abusing him for his disgraceful flop bet
    Posted by CrazyBen23

    Well What I did say was. Didn't I get my money in ahead? I don't think I mind their Cbet too Much as It represents the premium hand and is probably the right move, however I think the all in call is just wrong. I'm not entirely sure they have to make this call. Thus I did question who really was the fish and donk.

  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    pre is fine imo flop is fine. Dont tap on the aquarium
    Posted by grantorino
    In the long run it isn't. if he misses the flop then its just a waste

    it worked this time only and wont often work, ok to do once in blue moon but if keep doing it in this spot to people with AK or a tight range he will definately lose in the long run

    Put to me why u think its all good?
  • edited May 2011
    Hi yuranasset, i play on the same tables and i echo what some of the other comments say. Pre is too aggro, suppose you have plenty of outs once you decide to push. Have to agree with CrazyBen tho, whats he doing on the flop? lol.

    As for abuse, its because they lost to an unorthodox hand. Just laugh and count their money. You pay in, you play it how you like. I fear you lose more than you win like this tho.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    pre is fine imo flop is fine. Dont tap on the aquarium
    Posted by grantorino
    Ty for the advice. I actually started doubting ho was actually tapping the aquarium, me or them. It stems from not really knowing how to play against Min 3bets though and like I said when someone does it the first thing I look at is their stack size before deciding and also being IP helps. So you reckon I should be calling pre here and most occasions when facing this sort of 3bet?
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this..... : In the long run it isn't. if he misses the flop then its just a waste it worked this time only and wont often work, ok to do once in blue moon but if keep doing it in this spot to people with AK or a tight range he will definately lose in the long run Put to me why u think its all good?
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    Its prob pretty close and Im not sure about the dynamics at 4NL. The tighter the range the more he should call. Its a small 3bet and he should have big implied odds. Depends how well he and villain play postflop a bit but its a spot where hero can play close to perfectly pretty easily and villain will stack off close to 100% with overpairs.
  • edited May 2011
    ok lets have a go at this, before all  the  better players come along with more sound advice that I will probably give.

    Firstly whats with the 5BB bet on the button, has this been a table dynamic. In isolation most would expect a standard 3bb button raise here. By making it 5BB are you trying to show perceived strength, or just take the blinds down.

    Now given what you are trying to do with your button raise (show strength or take blinds as you perceive your hand is vunable), what do you make of the fact when the SB reraises you. What impression did he have of your hand.

    If he thought you were strong , then he's told you he thinks he's stronger.

    Does he consider that the higher than standard raise means that your hand is vunerable, and he thinks he can take it down with anything.

    So the question is what did you think you were up against when reraised. Did you think you were behind and thus you called hoping to hit something on the flop.

    Dont have a problem with trying to take it down from the button pre flop, but you got an answer to your raise, and by calling it you were gambling that you would hit on the flop, and I think I'd have said to myself ok I tried I got caught and made the fold pre flop

    Once the flop comes I'm doing same as you here, but the pre flop play could be deemed as questionable.

    As for abuse aside from the fact that there's no need for it anyways, the other guy could have applied all those terms that he gave you to himself for his post flop play
  • edited May 2011
    it's nl8 which is glorified nl4  fwiw plays pretty similar but not as many any 2 etc

    i get how deep they both are but dont think defending with 79 suited is the way to go, maybe in a multiway pot but i think its wasting too many chips here as played. this hand he got lucky and post flop was perfect but i dont think that will happen too often, say for eg. villain has AK suited here? its not really a good spot to be in, vs loose opponents we want to tighten up and same against a TAG imo get in cheap and then outplay them postflop but calling a 3 bet here is not good even vs this 1 opponent over time.

    I dont hate the play again but i think you should be tightenning up here evven if you have position, maybe K10 suited and similar hands you can defend to his 3 bet
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this..... : Its prob pretty close and Im not sure about the dynamics at 4NL. The tighter the range the more he should call. Its a small 3bet and he should have big implied odds. Depends how well he and villain play postflop a bit but its a spot where hero can play close to perfectly pretty easily and villain will stack off close to 100% with overpairs.
    Posted by grantorino
    The only reason I call this unless they are 3betting v the btn a decent % then I will call or 4bet. It was 5xbb because lets be fair 8NL is full of calling stations and because I was 5xbb UTG, I decided show the same strength in every position, although, I do agree it's probably not required on the btn. 
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    it's nl8 which is glorified nl4  fwiw plays pretty similar but not as many any 2 etc i get how deep they both are but dont think defending with 79 suited is the way to go, maybe in a multiway pot but i think its wasting too many chips here as played. this hand he got lucky and post flop was perfect but i dont think that will happen too often, say for eg. villain has AK suited here? its not really a good spot to be in, vs loose opponents we want to tighten up and same against a TAG imo get in cheap and then outplay them postflop but calling a 3 bet here is not good even vs this 1 opponent over time. I dont hate the play again but i think you should be tightenning up here evven if you have position, maybe K10 suited and similar hands you can defend to his 3 bet
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    I do believe you have a valid point here to an extend but its a min raise 3bet. Do you think that regardless of the size of 3bet I should be folding. I admit I do have a problem differentiating min 3bets from the blind between Strength and defence. I feel I'm priced in here.
  • edited May 2011
    A min 3 bet would be 80p, ok its not much extra but then just wasting more bb's. i suppose its not too bad and around min re-raise can call but i wouldnt do it very often. Next time think about how your hand plays post flop and what hands your opponent is doing it with,
  • edited May 2011
    bit of a arkward one this, iv bumped into you a little of late even on this table too i think and to be honest i would never have you on that hand pre. I always say that spending a pound or two at this level can work to your advantage as it can keep everyone guessing your next move. However in this situation your not in controle pre flop and your now relying on hitting the flop big as you really ought to know the villain is gonna be firing out on almost all flops with that kind of aggresive raise pre. For this reason this is a big no no for me. post flop = fine.  AS for people calling you a donk or a fish a have not seen that side of you but both yourself and villain have made very questionable plays here.Oh and NL4 is nothing like NL8 at all IMO
  • edited May 2011
    the only thing i dislike about pre is opening to 5x, 3x btn open is perfectly fine. calling the 3bet is very marginal and i would only do it if had a decent read on how they play postflop but its sooooooooooted so :D.

    you dont need to defend why/how you play your hands just ignore them, or just say 'ty' to super tilt them
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    bit of a arkward one this, iv bumped into you a little of late even on this table too i think and to be honest i would never have you on that hand pre. I always say that spending a pound or two at this level can work to your advantage as it can keep everyone guessing your next move. However in this situation your not in controle pre flop and your now relying on hitting the flop big as you really ought to know the villain is gonna be firing out on almost all flops with that kind of aggresive raise pre. For this reason this is a big no no for me. post flop = fine.  AS for people calling you a donk or a fish a have not seen that side of you but both yourself and villain have made very questionable plays here.Oh and NL4 is nothing like NL8 at all IMO
    Posted by beeasyonme
    Totally agree with this. Some nice points also , thank you.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    the only thing i dislike about pre is opening to 5x, 3x btn open is perfectly fine. calling the 3bet is very marginal and i would only do it if had a decent read on how they play postflop but its sooooooooooted so :D. you dont need to defend why/how you play your hands just ignore them, or just say 'ty' to super tilt them
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Your input was one of the only reasons I put this hand up in the forum. I follow most your posts when it comes to helping the lower stakes. 

    Would you call a weak 3bet with no read but good  implied odds or do you reckon 'lets this one go and develop a history with the villain. 

    Beeasyonme made a valid point also, where I think It's actually fine to show up with air to establish a history.

    It's an interesting one with a several different views, but my honest opinion is that this hand played itself. The size of the btn raise depends on how much your getting called from the blinds.

    TY for taking the time GL at the tables. :D
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    the only thing i dislike about pre is opening to 5x, 3x btn open is perfectly fine. calling the 3bet is very marginal and i would only do it if had a decent read on how they play postflop but its sooooooooooted so :D. you dont need to defend why/how you play your hands just ignore them, or just say 'ty' to super tilt them
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    he really does'nt need to say a thing to tilt someone but just hit his very few outs lol, he did play fine though
    beeasyonme Small blind  £0.04 £0.04 £11.90
    davesimm27 Big blind  £0.08 £0.12 £8.99
      Your hole cards
    • 5
    • 5
         
    noddy9120 Call  £0.08 £0.20 £9.33
    yuranASSet Raise  £0.48 £0.68 £7.24
    syclopse06 Fold     
    mjp123 Call  £0.48 £1.16 £2.38
    beeasyonme Call  £0.44 £1.60 £11.46
    davesimm27 Call  £0.40 £2.00 £8.59
    noddy9120 Call  £0.40 £2.40 £8.93
    Flop
       
    • 3
    • 8
    • 5
         
    beeasyonme Check     
    davesimm27 Check     
    noddy9120 Check     
    yuranASSet All-in  £7.24 £9.64 £0.00
    mjp123 Fold     
    beeasyonme Call  £7.24 £16.88 £4.22
    davesimm27 Fold     
    noddy9120 Fold     
    beeasyonme Show
    • 5
    • 5
       
    yuranASSet Show
    • K
    • K
       
    Turn
       
    • K
         
    River
       
    • 3
         
    yuranASSet Win Full House, Kings and 3s £15.61  £15.61
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this..... : he really does'nt need to say a thing to tilt someone but just hit his very few outs lol, he did play fine though beeasyonme Small blind   £0.04 £0.04 £11.90 davesimm27 Big blind   £0.08 £0.12 £8.99   Your hole cards 5 5       noddy9120 Call   £0.08 £0.20 £9.33 yuranASSet Raise   £0.48 £0.68 £7.24 syclopse06 Fold         mjp123 Call   £0.48 £1.16 £2.38 beeasyonme Call   £0.44 £1.60 £11.46 davesimm27 Call   £0.40 £2.00 £8.59 noddy9120 Call   £0.40 £2.40 £8.93 Flop     3 8 5       beeasyonme Check         davesimm27 Check         noddy9120 Check         yuranASSet All-in   £7.24 £9.64 £0.00 mjp123 Fold         beeasyonme Call   £7.24 £16.88 £4.22 davesimm27 Fold         noddy9120 Fold         beeasyonme Show 5 5       yuranASSet Show K K       Turn     K       River     3       yuranASSet Win Full House, Kings and 3s £15.61   £15.61
    Posted by beeasyonme

    Yes, I left the tables after this and had a look in here, got very very lucky, sorry. 

  • edited May 2011
    pre flop is fine imo, although open less than 5x as it makes it expensive when you want to call with small pocket pairs, suited gap/connectors when you are 3bet etc. in cash these hands are great to play esp in position because if you miss the flop you dont lose much, when you hit you get stacks. 

    post flop is correct, have a purrr and if thats not good enough your still in good shape against an overpair anyway. doubtful he has a set/2pair/straight as he probably doesnt 3bet OOP with any of those cards! the villain played it horrendously, calling off £6 with Ace high. nearly got rewarded to ffs. but then he didnt wiiiii
  • edited May 2011
    i dont like 5x the button, in fact i hate it. the rest is fine tho. 97suited is my fav hand :D
  • edited May 2011
    if you're gonna call a 3 bet with a marginal hand, you want 2 things preferably-

    a) position

    b) suited connectors/small pairs

    Might not be a suited connector, but it's close enough. You need something that has potential to flop well, and if they 3-bet, you know they're probably gonna stack off almost always at this level. That kind of makes position a little irrelevant, but hey- it's always nice to have anyway.

    Agree with everyone else on the 3-4x raise- I don't like raising to 5 as standard, in early position I might be more tempted to get folds (no real need at this level to worry about people getting a read on what your raises mean) but on the button, 3x is fine- that means you're getting much better implied odds when you get 3-bet, you have to commit a lot less preflop compared to his stack size, making the call that much easier.

    Postflop is standard as it gets, pair+fl draw=stick it in. Villain is a complete donk for leading out at a 3bet pot with A high for 1.5x the pot, then calling a jam. Unfortunately, idiots like that are the first ones to point fingers- as lol_raise said, just say 'ty' in the chat box, maybe with a smiley face too- that will tilt him SO bad! Don't ever feel you need to defend yourself against the fish. And whatever you do, don't educate them ;)

    *edit* oh, fwiw- I really really don't like that bet on flop with KK. Everyone's already checked, indicating they're not interested- stick a pot size bet in. You're either having 2 pair/sets slowplayed against you, or players have too weak a hand to call. All the hands you WANT action from (draws/single pairs) you're risking folding out, if you bet pot and are called, you can stick it in on any turn.

    When you bet, remember what your goals are. To get worse hands to call, to be able to get away from bigger hands if they reraise, and to offer draws a bad price (primarily, anyway). Don't think you're getting away from this on flop anyway at this level, so whatever your bet it's with intention to stick the lot in, but at least price in all those weak hands like 67/89/A8/A5 etc.
  • edited May 2011
    very good insight from 3 very creidtable players. So what have I learned. Okay 5xbtn open goes (without limpers) but continue to call 3bets where I'm being offered value. I don't like the way I played the Kings either. Was lucky to get lucky. Was trying to get A2-A5 to fold and now having seeing the way the hand played out it's totally unnessecary. Lets hope I run well today. GL to everyone.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Got a barrage of abuse for this.....:
    very good insight from 3 very creidtable players. So what have I learned. Okay 5xbtn open goes (without limpers) but continue to call 3bets where I'm being offered value. I don't like the way I played the Kings either. Was lucky to get lucky. Was trying to get A2-A5 to fold and now having seeing the way the hand played out it's totally unnessecary. Lets hope I run well today. GL to everyone.
    Posted by yuranASSet
    way to mug everyone else of lol
  • edited May 2011
    Again only read the OP but I dont see why you got abuse.  Your raised the hand knowing if you got the right flop you'd get paid.  You got the right flop, you got paid!!!  Nice and creative :)

    Plus he makes a terrible lead and call on the flop.  I wouldnt advocate the same line at higher stakes, but if your comfortable fishing at that level go for it.

    Funnily you hear people say you have to bet bigger at those stakes in most threads.  Which you did, just not with a preemy :p
Sign In or Register to comment.