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Middle set vs 3/4 Scandanavian, battling for sidepot. Aim to improve or get out of way?
I'd check shove, if hes got it meh
Comments
So am sat about £700. Standard of play has been pretty good mostly. Pretty drunk guys sits down on my left with £50, never seen him before but he's wasted so am liking the prospect. I raise UTG+1 with 4's to £5, drunk guy calls in the CO LAG calls the button SB blind folds, BB makes it up.
£20 in the pot flop comes out 245r.
Middle set, boards not my favourite. BB checks. I bet £12, drunk guy calls LAG makes it an even £50. I've played this guy alot in the past, he's at least 3/4's Scandanavian. He loves to bluff. Happy to fire three barrells constantly. If you called him down with A high you'd be doing ok. But I figure he has to know I have something, raising pre, opening flop. I have to feel like he knows its not a standard c-bet. I've got a few tells on him. But I definately got a confidence/I want action vibe off him. I'm genuinely fearful he has A3 or 5's. But as he could just as easily be betting the draw or 7's or higher, potentially air I call. Drunk guy beats me into the pot. I know hes just flushed £50 to one of us.
£170 in pot going to turn 245 10 I'm still sat with around £650. Opponent having maybe £250.
I just have to decide to price him in here or find a window.
I'll only put the result up if someone asks. Without being results orientated, in terms of EV+ what line do you take? Your OOP with 3rd set. Guy is a known trickster but I will openly say his level of confidence seemed high.
I was talking about betting for info yesterday and I think LOL-raise and grantorino input is right for the vast majority of situations. This was running through my thoughts at time. My first impulse was to bet £60 to see if he came back at me. If he jams on me there in the side pot I'm getting all the info i'll likely need. But conversly I'm pot stuck. Live I'm gregghogg esque, fearing the worst probably too frequently. Another key issue, I'm getting to see his hand either way with main pot.
Fringe issue, flushed too much money Thursday, happy to make it up on that session (bad I know).
What do you mean by lag, from posts about your game lag could=spewbox imo. Is he good or bad?
I'm definitely betting flop bigger, and I'm usually 3betting without a very good reason not to
will post more when you answer qs above
His A game is good, his range can be REALLY hard to find, never speaks, but it just depends on the game he's brought to the table. His range is really wide there mostly. But the £50 make up auto brings drunk guy in, so he knows his hand has to showdown vs random drunk guy.
"from posts about your game lag could=spewbox imo" could we lay off the back handed incendary comments please.
I'm curious as to your bet flop bigger comment. I think the £12 finds their range pretty well, help pot along on its way. I bet bigger than the 3 bet, if I elect to make it is substantially bigger. I dont want to push out air or draws, overall am happy to get two calls and play from flop onwards. Am getting played back at, called down with a pretty huge range.
i think c/jam turn is best way to play it.
you could lead smallish to look weak and rep middleish strength hand that will fold to a raise if u say he is aggro and likes to bluff etc
Im betting flop bigger from value from the tonnes or worse hands out there, I doubt betting a few £ more makes much difference to villains calling or raising range. I would want this guy to raise me more.
Imo 3bet flop, he may try push you off with pair+draw, 2pair etc this deep. Asplayed I prob c/r turn and get it in
I am beating so much of his range, he probably got overpair plus might aswel give him the chance to bluff if he does this regular
if he shows me str/ or better set then I sigh and go get myself a drink from the bar
Yep my bad, mostly still asleep.
Does his bring up to £50 make you more concerned or less? It is the exact figure of 3rd player.
Thanks for the mutiple views so far.
This highlighted line did play massively into my thinking. But I really was in two minds. If he is weak he knows well enough to fold, plus he's probably folding all the hands I want to keep it. I think strongly he folds 7's through 10's. Only thing he really calls me with is the hands I hate or perhaps he 4 bet jams 67, that would potentially be his play. But I do think he knows what a lead 3bet OOP means from me, he has decent instincts. But in manys ways your right, he is paying me with sooooooo many hands.
I am having profile issues but did get your PM grantorino and thankyou. Cant reply just now.
Well this is another thing. I've seen many people on this forum state you should always be getting as much across the line with a flopped set, readless and regardless of board. I've never agreed with this, not to say I believe its wrong (factor in the pot size/implied odds and odds to fillup if he's caught miracle board) I do think this is where I differ from you online guys. Where your dealing with huge volume and happily grinding out the EV+ spots.
With playing less hands live your dealing with much more hand/player specific information. Capitalising and safeguarding where neccessary.
But as always if all the roadsigns point east, its sometimes unwise to go west.
As Julian Thew or someone said on the show before if you dont go broker set vs set then you have played it badly, if your vs flopped straight its ul but you have outs, same if your up against flush although we're obv in worser shape. Basically i'm never folding a set
I do think its a little different on a wet board.
I cant see why you dont want to get it in v this guy. If you were HU with him its a standard 3beton flop imo, the shortie in the middle complicates things a bit, as he shouldn't really hava a bare draw ever, and same goes for you if you 3bet. I couldnt fold this at any point with out a cast iron read.
Also when you say you are thinking about bet for info on turn if you are considering b/f turn that is an absolutely horrendous line imo
I'll put the result up then hopefully have a few posts to read when getting in.
Villain did have thew bloody A3. I really had a bad feeling about the hand from the early raise. I just didnt think there'd be that many hands he'd choose to raise flop with. Its a good bet.
We can talk about folding sets as DOH says but in reality, not that profitable or even that easy.
I went down the worst route lead, call finally, hoped to see a cheap river filling up. Thing is math wasnt too far off (ish)
I lead out £85, he jams, i do a little song and dance to try and save face if he flips 5's or A3 (ego, ego, ego). £505ish in pot £160ish to call, having 7 outs if I am behind 15% ish ftw. Against a pure rock I MAY talk myself into a fold on flop turn, but not here. My gut feeling could easily have been wrong.
But happy days, drunk guy reloaded, reloaded, reloaded.. went to bank reloaded endlessly
You guys miss this fun stuff on internet
True but you have to look at the action also. Potentially your only raising two players there slim. Your either way ahead or way behind, better to decide early.
The line of flat flop raise, lead blank turn doesnt make sense to me
hand is a cooler
Given the fact you is not folding then why not just check/call because regardless of what comes if your not folding if he shoves the flop/turn/river. Maybe even check/call turn and shove river.
Becuase the way i see it nothing will alter the outcome if you shove flop and get called or check/call.
It's all going to be the same
Do you see my point or am I talking gibberish.
I suppose you could argue that you want to get it good but if it goes bad then hey same result.
Once you can see he has a hand and is willing to go to war or bluff then all is good with me as i have a set.
It should have been in on flop. I had a bad feeling on it and guess I wanted to leave myself a bolthole on later street, which in reality was unlikey to happen. Or improve to 4's full at turn.
If I do flat flop it can only be with the intention to bluff catch through later streets, not realistically fold to any card not pairing the board.
I think either line is ok depending on the action
There's another thread on here regarding flopping a set where DOh and LOL_RAISE state they would check and let others catch up so they would hang themselfs
It's an intresting debate.
Online I likely put it in on the flop without even thinking too deeply, but this may be part and parcel of my online failings as a rule.
Live I have many more tools at my disposal. Its not a simple EV+ hand. I can really take my time, try and get villain to give something away by waiting him out. EV+ your doing your stack always online, absorbed into larger game. Live it may take you the rest of the night to regain the loss, even then only if your lucky.
But I agree money was always going in unless I am 100% certain, but against this opponent, never happening. TBH tricky fold against any opponent, nigh on impossible. Even with the gut feeling it changes nothing. Would have been very nice to fill up though.
I cant see how you are ever folding here, so best line depends on how likely he is to keep betting combo draws etc, how likely he is to go nuts on flop with worse hands. My default is 3bet flop and snap a shove