How bad was this played?

iBLUFF

Two questions first should i be just shoving or folding pre? and also when i do raise is the flop shove right? Constructive criticism welcome.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
iBLUFF	Small blind		100.00	100.00	3145.00
kidgirlgy	Big blind		200.00	300.00	10412.50
	Your hole cards	10 A
biggs10	Call		200.00	500.00	3145.00
neal01	Raise		400.00	900.00	10537.50
iBLUFF	Raise		800.00	1700.00	2345.00
kidgirlgy	Fold
biggs10	Fold
neal01	Call		500.00	2200.00	10037.50
Flop
		4 4 5
iBLUFF	All-in		2345.00	4545.00	0.00
neal01	Call		2345.00	6890.00	7692.50
iBLUFF	Show	10 A
neal01	Show	Q Q
Turn
		8
River
		7
neal01	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 4s	6890.00		14582.50

Crunchybob

Hey,

Looking at this, you might of aswell go all in pre flop(as u obv planned on doing it after flop)

if u did then his a huge fave anyway.

wrong move at the wrong time i think.

Im not a big fan of ace 10, gets me in alot of trouble.

grantorino

why 3bet at

jakally

Shove pre is fine..... 16BB is an ideal reshove stack.

If the button is opening a lot of hands, you can 3bet shove here with a wide range.

iBLUFF

In Response to Re: How bad was this played?:

Shove pre is fine..... 16BB is an ideal reshove stack. If the button is opening a lot of hands, you can 3bet shove here with a wide range.
Posted by jakally

Thanks jackally, what i forgot to put in op is that it was the bh semi with around about 16 left i belive with top 5 getting into bh .. and i was 12th.

Should of just shoved pre then?

iBLUFF

In Response to Re: How bad was this played?:

why 3bet at
Posted by grantorino

Honestly thought my 3bet but was bigger than that , but tbh i was going to shove any flop.

jakally

In Response to Re: How bad was this played?:

In Response to Re: How bad was this played? :   Should of just shoved pre then?
Posted by iBLUFF

Yes.

Dudeskin8

Shove/fold preflop, I verge towards fold as neal has a big stack and will snap call with AJ/AQ

AMYBR

You can only really enter the hand if you think opponent is min raising an UTG limp with less than A10, which its pretty likely he isnt.

Snap fold from me bud, too much action already in the pot, both opponents likely being stronger than yourself, UTG+1 significantly so, min raising the limp, he wants action.

grantorino

shove pre, unless minraise is not his standard open or hes verry nitty

iBLUFF

In Response to Re: How bad was this played?:

shove pre, unless minraise is not his standard open or hes verry nitty
Posted by grantorino

Yeh obv it doesnt change this situation as im getting called anyway but after the hand i know i should of shoved pre, just wanted to make sure thats what was best.

jakally

In Response to Re: How bad was this played?:

min raising an UTG limp with less than A10, 
Posted by AMYBR

Think it's a bit creative to describe this as an UTG limp (although you are technically correct obv).

For this to be a fold, the button needs to have a very tight range in this spot.

It's 4 handed, and he has a guy limping the cut off..... there must be a chance he raises KQ, KJs, AJ,AT, 88 etc....(Top 12%ish of hands)

If he does, there is a chance he folds a chunk of these (if he calls tight,say top 5% only, he folds nearly 60% of the time)

If he folds 60% of the time, we make 900 chips each time he folds.

Against a pretty tight calling range, we have just under 30% equity.

Therefore, about 28% of the time, we lose our stack, 3145 chips.

The other 12% of the time we win the hand, and gain 3545 chips.

(0.6 * 900) + (0.12*3545) - (0.28*3145) = +85 chips (we make on average 85 chips each time we make this play).

It's a lot closer than I thought, and if the guy is nitty I think a fold is fine. If they are raising a bit wider than top 12% it's a fist pump jam.

AMYBR

Am i reading this hand completely wrong? 

Biggs limps 200 UTG

neals min pops to 400

ibluff pops it back another 400 (800).

So biggs limps, neals min pops to 400.

yes 4 handed so positions are weakened, but I;m never going to love A10 based on the action in that spot.

YOUNG_GUN

i'd shove pre unless you think the villain is a super nit like greghogg styley

AMYBR

Surely the question has to be "what is neal01" min raising the limper with?  Or am I infact totally mis reading the hand?

If you are even entertaining playing the A10, you need an answer to that question.  Given the contextual info of the table at the time if the answer is "better than A10" (for me) its a snap fold.  But I think in that spot the answer is vurtually always going to be "better than A10".  Who would min bet a weak PP or A9 or worse following a limp?

iBLUFF

In Response to Re: How bad was this played?:

Surely the question has to be "what is neal01" min raising the limper with?  Or am I infact totally mis reading the hand? If you are even entertaining playing the A10, you need an answer to that question.  Given the contextual info of the table at the time if the answer is "better than A10" (for me) its a snap fold.  But I think in that spot the answer is vurtually always going to be "better than A10".  Who would min bet a weak PP or A9 or worse following a limp?
Posted by AMYBR

NEAL01 isnt the well tightest player ever lol, so i was putting him on garbish, i thought my raise pre was bigger but looking at my stack now it looks like a obv shove ( as i dont think the utg, or neil have me beat) to be honest i was verry suprised when i saaw his hand because of his flat  when i re raised.

AMYBR

Lol, right then.  If he has a tendancy to do it weak (but only then - as min raising a UTG limper when blinds are reasonable is such a show of strength) then given your stack its a jam.

I just hate getting involved with semi strong holdings in those spots.  As with all the dead money and initial interest your more likely to be called wider than in a normal pot.