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30NL line check

edited June 2011 in The Poker Clinic
utg seems okish, have seen him minraise 74s utg, he raises bigger sometimes

CO is a fish

Opinions on all ot this please, my image should be solid
sb Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £23.30
grantorino Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £30.15
co Big blind  £0.30 £0.75 £11.27
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • 3
     
utg Raise  £0.60 £1.35 £39.52
co Call  £0.30 £1.65 £10.97
btn Fold     
sb Fold     
grantorino Raise  £2.10 £3.75 £28.05
utg Call  £1.80 £5.55 £37.72
co Call  £1.80 £7.35 £9.17
Flop
   
  • 9
  • 2
  • K
     
grantorino Check     
utg Check     
co Check     
Turn
   
  • J
     
grantorino Check     
utg Check     
co Check     
River
   
  • 9
     
grantorino Check     
utg Bet  £5.63 £12.98 £32.09
co Fold     
grantorino Call  £5.63 £18.61

Comments

  • edited May 2011
    I dont like it but i probably call this too. It sounds from your original statement that he is capable of repping the 9's and with it being such a passive hand so far, he could easily be stealing this. Its a call in my book mate.
  • edited May 2011

    If utg is min raising then chances are he's not very good. I wouldn't be 3 betting K3 oop, no need to. Why do you 3 bet K3 then check the flop and turn with top pair? Can't be trapping multi way so i guess you are unsure. Cbet flop here. Comes back to 3bet oop pre with K3... You got a guy who min raises pre and a fish already in the pot so chances are you are going to be playing a 3bet pot oop with a hand that has big reverse implied odds. Just bin it move on and own them.

    P.S if you are playing against fish who don't even know how to raise properly i very much doubt that they have any image of you

  • edited May 2011
    i think you should definatly be vbetiing the turn. i think river is a fold, but i think you should bet it yourself after checking turn
  • edited May 2011
    squeeze is fine, as is the check on flop. but leading out on turn is probz best, you can be quite confident you have the best hand. as played, i probably call, suppose he could be value betting a J here. 
  • edited May 2011
    yea, I lead turn. Happy to check flop, if anyone has a big piece of that they'd bet it- 2 checks can fairly safely tell you there's no kings out there. Bet turn, if you get called they very likely have a 9 or jack, then probably a smallish bet on the river with intent to fold to raise.

    If they're bad they pay you off with random jacks and deuces, they will reraise you with any 9. 

    I don't massively dislike your line with such a poor kicker, but that's kinda why I'd be more tempted to find a better hand to squeeze pre with. As it is you're kinda forced to call the river because you have zero idea what utg is holding. I know you don't like betting for info- but the information you get whilst betting for value/bluffing, whichever you're doing, can be invaluable for putting your opponent on a realistic range.
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: 30NL line check:
    If utg is min raising then chances are he's not very good. I wouldn't be 3 betting K3 oop, no need to. Why do you 3 bet K3 then check the flop and turn with top pair? Can't be trapping multi way so i guess you are unsure. Cbet flop here. Comes back to 3bet oop pre with K3... You got a guy who min raises pre and a fish already in the pot so chances are you are going to be playing a 3bet pot oop with a hand that has big reverse implied odds. Just bin it move on and own them. P.S if you are playing against fish who don't even know how to raise properly i very much doubt that they have any image of you
    Posted by WildDog
    when I 3bet pre I am bluffing. Hence why Im not so confident about betting flop and turn for value. I think looking back its prob not a great spot to squeeze but I was confident utg wasnt strong as he usually raised bigger. he didnt seem that fishy from few hands I had seen. Why do you think I should cbet? whats the plan for rest of hand if Im called.

    I prob should bet turn or river. Not sure I can bet both though


  • edited May 2011
    Only read OP so apologise if I'm repeating other comments. 

    Got to admit I hate the hand from beginning to end.  You know the dynamic, so you know whether or not squeezing is a viable route.  But you take control of the hand pre, then play very passive, only putting any money in after you've let two cards come off for free. 

    I dont really get the squeeze, as your getting called, then OP throughout the hand.  I likely pay the 30p getting 5/1 taking it from there.

    But post, check flop is fine, need to see what route UTG decides to take.  But after flop goes check check check you def need to value bet/protect your hand.  Something like £5.2.  River is tricky, your only calling into a bluff or vry strong hand.  Like I said, you take control pre, but then become vry passive post.  By 3betting weak pre, you really should follow through the plan of firing at most flops bud.
  • edited May 2011

    again, pre is a bluff

    I dont like how I played it, otherwise I dont post it

    if I bet turn,can I fire river

  • edited May 2011
    also, I understand if people dont like bluffing here, i KINDA THINK ITS SPEW MYSELF
  • edited May 2011
    I understand the squeeze pre.  What is the original raisers bet/call pre ratio?  Same question on the caller as well.  This would be vital to my thinking through the rest of the hand.

    Readless I'd check both streets as well and call the river if he's capable of a thin value bet or river bluff (tens, paired the jack etc).
  • edited May 2011
    Really don't like preflop raise but I guess at 30NL you need more strings to your bow other than playing big hands as in 4NL, if I was on the button I'd be much more in favour.

    I'd also check flop but defo bet turn as you can get lots of call from random Jacks thinking they're good.

    River probably a call aswell.
  • edited May 2011
    I sometimes think we over-complicate things. Are you generally overanalysing things, seeing threats that aren't there, thinking 3 and 4 levels against players who just stare at their hole cards? I've done it, we all have.

    You raised pre, hit top pair, then checked the flop, turn and river, giving all those free cards and losing the initiative. Fire flop, fire turn, CC or CF river depending on bet size.

    As played, you know he's got A9 and has sucked out on you, but why oh why did you give those free cards?
  • edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: 30NL line check:
    I sometimes think we over-complicate things. Are you generally overanalysing things, seeing threats that aren't there, thinking 3 and 4 levels against players who just stare at their hole cards? I've done it, we all have. You raised pre, hit top pair, then checked the flop, turn and river, giving all those free cards and losing the initiative. Fire flop, fire turn, CC or CF river depending on bet size. As played, you know he's got A9 and has sucked out on you, but why oh why did you give those free cards?
    Posted by BigBluster
    You really think I can bet/bet/c/c in a 3bet pot with Krag on this board? I doubt theres many villains thats good against. Also I am not worried about giving a hand like A9 free cards, if I bet its for value, better never folds

  • edited May 2011

    Two diamonds and 9K on flop, I'd definitely be betting flop and turn. On river, maybe he's got a busted flush or str8 draw? Dunno. But giving those free cards is asking for trouble.

  • edited May 2011
    i think w/o reads id only go for one street of value, or two but very small bets like 1/3rd pot
  • edited June 2011
    i dont hate the play pre but its not the best but im never checking flop after the pre flop play theres tons of vlaue in a bet and if called i sometimes bet turn for protection/value and sometimes check (pot control/deception) 

    ..

    u gave up all initiative in hand for a reason im unsure of...?? 

    ..

    river is defo a fold he has a 9 a huge amount here
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