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Could I have extracted more chips??

GlenelgGlenelg
edited May 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Hi Ya'll,

Could I have done better with this hand? Deepstack and the table was FULL of L**mpers! lol.
Anyway, dissect....
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Glenelg Small blind  15.00 15.00 5292.50
merelco Big blind  30.00 45.00 4955.00
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • K
     
leagaz Call  30.00 75.00 4910.00
carol527 Call  30.00 105.00 4722.50
arwel Fold     
bigr Fold     
Glenelg Call  15.00 120.00 5277.50
merelco Check     
Flop
   
  • 8
  • 10
  • 10
     
Glenelg Bet  30.00 150.00 5247.50
merelco Fold     
leagaz Call  30.00 180.00 4880.00
carol527 Call  30.00 210.00 4692.50
Turn
   
  • 3
     
Glenelg Bet  60.00 270.00 5187.50
leagaz Fold     
carol527 Call  60.00 330.00 4632.50
River
   
  • K
     
Glenelg Bet  30.00 360.00 5157.50
carol527 Call  30.00 390.00 4602.50
Glenelg Show
  • 10
  • K
   
carol527 Muck
  • 6
  • 6
   
Glenelg Win Full House, 10s and Kings 390.00  5547.50

Got an even better one to follow.....
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Comments

  • GlenelgGlenelg
    edited May 2011

    I done my best here....

    arwel Small blind  40.00 40.00 4445.00
    bigr Big blind  80.00 120.00 6680.00
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • A
    		     
    Glenelg Raise  160.00 280.00 4227.50
    jespo2 Call  160.00 440.00 18845.00
    Neildown Fold     
    carol527 Fold     
    arwel Fold     
    bigr Fold     
    Flop
       
    • Q
    • Q
    • Q
    		     
    Glenelg Check     
    jespo2 Check     
    Turn
       
    • 7
    		     
    Glenelg Bet  80.00 520.00 4147.50
    jespo2 Call  80.00 600.00 18765.00
    River
       
    • 6
    		     
    Glenelg Bet  300.00 900.00 3847.50
    jespo2 Fold     
    Glenelg Show
    • Q
    • A
    		   
    Glenelg Win  600.00  4447.50
    Glenelg Return  300.00 0.00 4747.50
    Could I've done better??
    Pad
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited May 2011
    The 10K hand bud.  I really cant tell you how much I hate the min lead.  Do you really want some to draw that cheap with 9J or PP>  But more than that they are likely to call more.  Your betting 1/4 pot on flop and turn.

    Dont confuse the joys of keeping people in when your strong with being afraid they'll fold.  In many ways its better they fold a hand on the flop that beats you on the river unseen.  With 4 players your going to get called relatively wide here, the lead out min looks stronger than perhaps a half/3'4 pot bet would.  They can put you on draws, the 8, PP or two high cards.  Get some money in!

    Perhaps only look for two streets of value (getting paid on fop/turn - flop/river = turn/river) but dont let them draw so cheap + inflate the pot early while they think they can catch up.
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive
    edited May 2011
    bet for value mate! Make this your mantra- 'thou shalt never bet less than half of the pot'.

    Can't go far wrong if you stick to that. The whole not scaring your customer off thing is overrated- they either have a hand, and come along with you, or they don't. Betting or checking just gives them cheap free cards, which they mostly won't like and end up folding anyway.

    If they have a draw on the flop (let's say they have J9), they'll be happy to see the cards for free if possible, they're unlikely to volunteer to put money in. But they WILL pay that money if you bet. If you bet super cheap until the river, they won't be interested if they've missed their draw, and if they hit it- well, you're in trouble aren't ya!

    Make sure you don't offer them favourable odds, without doing stupid things that price them out like shoving for 4x the pot. In this instance, a nice 3/4 bet on flop is nice, somewhere around 120. That offers draws a bad price, but might entice them to see another card. Then you can bet around 1/2 to 2/3 on the turn, around 250 say, which might well get action again. Then there's a pot worth bluffing at on the river for them if they miss, if there's no draws completed on the river you could check and induce a nice bluff attempt, people will be loathe to give up on a 700+chip pot if they think they could get you off it.

    Even if you only get action on the flop, that's more than you got throughout the whole hand. You may even induce a reraise semi-bluff!

    For the quads hand, it's really really simple. If they pair the board, you're getting paid. If they have a half decent pp, you're getting paid. If they have neither, you're not getting a bean. Checking flop is good, betting turn+river is good. Just hope that they hit! ^^
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited May 2011
    I havent looked at replies, but look at your sizing and answer your own question

    1. at least 3/4 pot every street
    2.  raise bigger pre, definitely bet flop, as played bet 300-350 on turn, as played 500 on river and dont show
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  • CrunchybobCrunchybob
    edited May 2011

    Hey Pad..

    I'd be raising in the first hand, esp after all those limpers looking to see a cheap flop. (the less players in a hand the more chance you have of winning)

    Also never min bet, you're in a good position to win the hand with that flop, although you want to win more chips do you really want to make the oppo pay 30chips to try and hit a draw.

    2nd hand the raise is good p/f

    but then after the flop you should bet more(try and make it look like a bluff)

    Like deuces said 'thou shalt never bet less than half of the pot'. - its a good motto and something i'd suggest sticking too as you win more chips imo.

    hope it helps

    Bob


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  • GlenelgGlenelg
    edited May 2011
    In Response to  ALL!

    Hi guys on a break and don't have time to read replies! However, your replies are obvs doing some good!

    I entered a £1.10 DS tonite,133 runners. I'm currently, 9/14!  FFS! I feel like Scotty musta felt last nite!!

    Pad
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  • CrunchybobCrunchybob
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Could I have extracted more chips??:
    In Response to  ALL! Hi guys on a break and don't have time to read replies! However, your replies are obvs doing some good! I entered a £1.10 DS tonite,133 runners. I'm currently, 9/14!  FFS! I feel like Scotty musta felt last nite!! Pad
    Posted by Glenelg
    GL pad, take it down :D
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  • GlenelgGlenelg
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Could I have extracted more chips??:
    The 10K hand bud.  I really cant tell you how much I hate the min lead.  Do you really want some to draw that cheap with 9J or PP />  But more than that they are likely to call more.  Your betting 1/4 pot on flop and turn. Dont confuse the joys of keeping people in when your strong with being afraid they'll fold.  In many ways its better they fold a hand on the flop that beats you on the river unseen.  With 4 players your going to get called relatively wide here, the lead out min looks stronger than perhaps a half/3'4 pot bet would.  They can put you on draws, the 8, PP or two high cards.  Get some money in! Perhaps only look for two streets of value (getting paid on fop/turn - flop/river = turn/river) but dont let them draw so cheap + inflate the pot early while they think they can catch up.
    Posted by AMYBR
    I did worry about flush after turn I have to say!

    Thanks
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  • GlenelgGlenelg
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: Could I have extracted more chips??:
    bet for value mate! Make this your mantra- ' thou shalt never bet less than half of the pot'. Can't go far wrong if you stick to that. The whole not scaring your customer off thing is overrated- they either have a hand, and come along with you, or they don't. Betting or checking just gives them cheap free cards, which they mostly won't like and end up folding anyway. If they have a draw on the flop (let's say they have J9), they'll be happy to see the cards for free if possible, they're unlikely to volunteer to put money in. But they WILL pay that money if you bet. If you bet super cheap until the river, they won't be interested if they've missed their draw, and if they hit it- well, you're in trouble aren't ya! Make sure you don't offer them favourable odds, without doing stupid things that price them out like shoving for 4x the pot. In this instance, a nice 3/4 bet on flop is nice, somewhere around 120. That offers draws a bad price, but might entice them to see another card. Then you can bet around 1/2 to 2/3 on the turn, around 250 say, which might well get action again. Then there's a pot worth bluffing at on the river for them if they miss, if there's no draws completed on the river you could check and induce a nice bluff attempt, people will be loathe to give up on a 700+chip pot if they think they could get you off it. Even if you only get action on the flop, that's more than you got throughout the whole hand. You may even induce a reraise semi-bluff! For the quads hand, it's really really simple. If they pair the board, you're getting paid. If they have a half decent pp, you're getting paid. If they have neither, you're not getting a bean. Checking flop is good, betting turn+river is good. Just hope that they hit! ^^
    Posted by DeucesLive
    Thanks DL!
    I always have to print out your posts and study them! lol! Great advice.
    I've put up a thread in General on how I done in an MTT tonite!
    P
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