Spewy or spot on @NL4? Cant decide

ilove2h8pr

Interesting hand at NL4 earlier, found the standard of play not to be as bad I'd been told.  Alot of limping, but ppl seem to no when to get out of the way for most part.

See much wrong with following hand?  Feel free to point out any glaring issues..

In the hand I figure he has a weaker K or made his flush on river.  I chatted with opponent afterwards and said the river is actually a bad card for him, as if he has more I fold to his bet.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Polymath	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.87
macx215	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£0.46
	Your hole cards	A K
ilove2h8pr	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£4.08
ALFIENOAKE	Fold
cmh-1965	Fold
X	Call		£0.18	£0.44	£1.69
macx215	Fold
Flop
		8 K 6
X	Bet		£0.04	£0.48	£1.65
ilove2h8pr	Raise		£0.28	£0.76	£3.80
X	Call		£0.24	£1.00	£1.41
Turn
		3
X	Check
ilove2h8pr	Bet		£0.48	£1.48	£3.32
X	Call		£0.48	£1.96	£0.93
River
		8
X	All-in		£0.93	£2.89	£0.00
ilove2h8pr	Call		£0.93	£3.82	£2.39
X	Show	A A
ilove2h8pr	Show	A K
X	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 8s	£3.53		£3.53

waller02

i can't see much wrong with the hand, maybe bet a bit more on the turn (3/4 pot) but the result was always going to be the same, just ul

AMYBR

Is there anyone out there that can give me the thought process for villains minbet lead on flop?? Only part of hand I dont get, funnily though in many ways its what likeky got him paid.  Two cold check calls raises more alarms than the weak lead on flop.

I'd have read it as weaker K or draw also I think.

Dont get the 9% pot min bet lead t turn at all really.

UL

tapeworm

In Response to Re: Spewy or spot on @NL4? Cant decide:

Is there anyone out there that can give me the thought process for villains minbet lead on flop?? Only part of hand I dont get, funnily though in many ways its what likeky got him paid.  Two cold check calls raises more alarms than the weak lead on flop. I'd have read it as weaker K or draw also I think. Dont get the 9% pot min bet lead t turn at all really. UL
Posted by AMYBR

You see this alot at NL4, some people will do it with monsters, as they will be happy to get 4p on flop, 8p on turn and then usually jam river. Others do it to check if other people have a hand (i.e fold to reraise).

I dont get it either, but the people who do it with monsters will usually get paid by aggressive regs, as they get reraised on flop or turn......still hate it though, you just have to make notes on each player that does this min raise thing and put them into groups. Obviously those that do it with monsters are easy to cheaply outdraw

Dudeskin8

Preflop fine.

Flop raise MUCH more, 50p minimum.

Turn would pretty much be a shove if flop bet was bigger, in this case 80p call shove.

On river in this situation it's a pretty easy snap fold as the flush draw has got there, plus possible trip 8's and the fact he's suddenly decided to play aggressive after so much weak passive awful play.

This is standard calling station fare at NL4, get Aces check call pre flop check call flop + turn then shove river, it is slightly frustrating as in this case but the good thing is they play KQ/KJ/K10/K9 all the same way so you win monies more often than not. But the main problem with this hand is your are not betting enough. BET BIG WITH BIG HANDS simplez.

MrWh1te

I would urge you to remember that you can bet a lot bigger at this limit too, than you can at other limits.

People just don't respect raises.  And the more you bet, the less chance people believe you.

Never bluff, get it all in asap when you hit.

I turned £4 into £12 this morning pretty quickly, yes I was hitting hands but the guys on the table where only sat with £1 or £2.  Each time I won they reloaded and seemed to respect my bets less.
I think in their head, instead of recognising that I had only ever shown big hands when I bet hard they were probably thinking that I couldn't keep hitting hands and was bluffing

Don't make the mistake that people make in that they think the players you are against are going through the same thought processes, at this level they probably aren't.

In short:
Play the cards
Bet big

TINTIN

In Response to Re: Spewy or spot on @NL4? Cant decide:

Is there anyone out there that can give me the thought process for villains minbet lead on flop?? Only part of hand I dont get, funnily though in many ways its what likeky got him paid.  Two cold check calls raises more alarms than the weak lead on flop. I'd have read it as weaker K or draw also I think. Dont get the 9% pot min bet lead t turn at all really. UL
Posted by AMYBR

you get min leads worse than that, im talking about 3 callers of pre bets of 30-40p then someone mins leads into a quid, the lead ranges from bottom pair to top pair to over pair to a draw to absolutlely nothing.

in this hand im stacking off just about everytime, the min lead and call stinks of a weak king, im just suprised they never min lead the turn n river

ilove2h8pr

In Response to Re: Spewy or spot on @NL4? Cant decide:

Preflop fine. Flop raise MUCH more, 50p minimum. Turn would pretty much be a shove if flop bet was bigger, in this case 80p call shove. On river in this situation it's a pretty easy snap fold as the flush draw has got there, plus possible trip 8's and the fact he's suddenly decided to play aggressive after so much weak passive awful play. This is standard calling station fare at NL4, get Aces check call pre flop check call flop + turn then shove river, it is slightly frustrating as in this case but the good thing is they play KQ/KJ/K10/K9 all the same way so you win monies more often than not. But the main problem with this hand is your are not betting enough. BET BIG WITH BIG HANDS simplez.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Why?  Surely he folds most weak hands, the min bet pretty much making me feel he is in fact weak.  Mayb ppl will call much more with the price being so cheap (relatively) bud do you not want to keep your bet sizing pretty standard?  I kind of feel you shoukd always play your best game, regardless of what people are doing around you...but then again a good player adapts to the their opponents level so mayb ur right.

TBF I think the guy plays his hand well.  Not the line I take really though.  Just as easy goes in on flop with his stack size.

DOHHHHHHH

Villain didn't play his hand well. 

He should 3b pre flop, bet flop and shove turn.

You played your hand 'ok'.....I think you're probz over thinking things though looking at your posts in this thread.

Just raise flop big enough so you can get all or most of his stack in on the turn, making the river an automatic stack off no matter what comes.

ilove2h8pr

I think he did play his hand well tbf.  I'd been by far the least inactive at table, but most aggro player with strong holdings.  So I think he knows I likely wriggle away with any serious pre flop action, but am stacking him off once he leads flop and gets raised. 

Not the approach I'd of taken tho.

I did size the turn to call any bet on the river, didnt luv the heart though

DeucesLive

betting 4p into 44p is never, ever a good play. It's a donk play and it's totally pointless, apart from the fact it utterly tilts me (and probably a good number of others).

It never means anything, but they absolutely LOVE minbet flop, minbet turn, jam river- it never makes any sense. 

Your opponent really played the hand poorly, he got the pot because there is no way off it for either of you- AK vs AA on a K high flop? Money's going in every time. However, if you have say AQ, you probably call the minbet on flop, check behind on turn and he's then got 4p postflop because you're folding the river. Or if you had a bare 8 or a heart draw, he's just let you get there virtually for free, before shipping you his stack without you having to work for it.

All his decisions, if they turned out to be good ones, were by luck rather than judgement- believe me. Guy's a donk. His river bet is appalling, and he got really lucky you had probably the one hand that pays him off- he minbets and checks when he rates to almost always have the bet hand, then when the board pairs and the flush hits he jams? How many hands that he beats REALLY call him there?

As to what you could have done, preflop is fine, when you hit a big hand- better to raise bigger at this level, don't try and do clever trappy plays- it's wasted on them. Aim to bet 3/4 pot minimum each street where you're sure you have the best hand (and until river, you should always think you're good here). Raising the flop to 40p instead of 28 might not seem like much, but that inflates the pot by another 24p, reducing his stack by 12p in the process. His stack is now roughly the same size as the pot, and you can virtually set him in on the turn- giving him terrible odds to draw to, but probably getting action anyway.

On the river as it's played, I would probably sighfold. Looks for all the world like he's binked trips on the end or maybe a flush, I'd never have guessed aces but what I'd be pretty confident about is you're behind. The call isn't so bad though, because you've got a little info on him now- I would just argue your read on his ability is definitely off.

grantorino

you played it fine, could bet bigger on flop and turn but your sizing is ok given stacks

Dudeskin8

Massive lolz at the extra analysis and considering if the villain 'played it right', jesus he is an awful calling station donk, just bet bigger at every stage post flop and you'll do good buddy.