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whats your views on this hand??
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GEMO | Small blind | £0.20 | £0.20 | £13.08 | |
| foye29 | Big blind | £0.40 | £0.60 | £7.77 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| DN34689 | Fold | ||||
| Dons1983 | Fold | ||||
| ChirpyChip | Fold | ||||
| boogsboy | Raise | £1.20 | £1.80 | £42.89 | |
| blackbeltb | Call | £1.20 | £3.00 | £44.21 | |
| BURNShurtz | Call | £1.20 | £4.20 | £74.56 | |
| GEMO | Call | £1.00 | £5.20 | £12.08 | |
| foye29 | Call | £0.80 | £6.00 | £6.97 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| GEMO | Check | ||||
| foye29 | Check | ||||
| boogsboy | Bet | £3.00 | £9.00 | £39.89 | |
| blackbeltb | Fold | ||||
| BURNShurtz | Call | £3.00 | £12.00 | £71.56 | |
| GEMO | Fold | ||||
| foye29 | Fold | ||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| boogsboy | Bet | £6.00 | £18.00 | £33.89 | |
| BURNShurtz | Raise | £12.00 | £30.00 | £59.56 | |
| boogsboy | All-in | £33.89 | £63.89 | £0.00 | |
| BURNShurtz | Fold | ||||
| boogsboy | Muck | ||||
| boogsboy | Win | £34.20 | £34.20 | ||
| boogsboy | Return | £27.89 | £1.80 | £62.09 | |
why did i not reraise pre?? well i did think about it but decided to flat as AK has cost me some money latley
his flop bet looked like a continuation bet so decided to just call that too with the intention of reraiseing on the turn then i just got in a pickle.
your thoughts on where i went wrong and how i should of played it thanks
Comments
flop fine considering you've played it slow pre.
as played flat call turn.
min raise/fold is just comical.
only street I like is flop and thats cos he can keep value betting AQ/AJ
Flop I guess is ok but really should have raised pre then you win more.
Turn is bizarre to minraise showing strength then just fold, crazy. If you flat flop then have to flat turn also.
But on the other hand it kind of gets you in abit of a mess as its clear you dont know where you are on the flop, I dont think many people would given that it goes 5way to flop then significant action.
So I dont hate the flat pre, but I 'm pretty sure I try to isolate abit and put in a solid £5.
But to flat to keep in the weaker hands then fold on the layered bets is a bit counter intuitive. Are you folding to the perceived 10 (which is potentially likely with tiny flop lead + blast on turn - perhaps even a set of 3's)?
FWIW I either min bet turn (as you do) to get to showdown for free on river or go into check call mode, maybe check fold a huge river bet. But the only real hands I'd be concerned by are the set of 3's or A 10pic combo.
Pretty sure he just calls the min turn bet with AQ, but who knows?
FWIW I either min bet turn (as you do) to get to showdown for free on river or go into check call mode, maybe check fold a huge river bet. But the only real hands I'd be concerned by are the set of 3's or A 10pic combo.
are in position why would we go into check call mode.
and the hands that are beating us are all thats beating us bar AA lol.
and fwiw the min raise/fold turn is lol because I'm assuming we min raise for value. to then fold we mays well have had 8 high. if you were gonna fold to a jam then why raise. we are in position and can call and see a river and let him bet with worse.
also raising on that flop isn't bad cos its so dry so not many hands that can be beating us. AT/A3 is unlikely as we have an A. TT/33 are all that can really be ahead on the flop.
If all 4 villains in hand were also 190bb deep then yh we have to proceed with caution but surely the reason for flatting with AK OTB is for a flop like A T 3 rainbow which is probably the best we can hope for other than an effective nut hand like top 2 or top trips etc.
Flatting or raising flop is both ok. You've disgusied the strengh of your hand so you can either get value from AQ/AJ etc on the flop by riasing or we can flat and continue to get value from those hands and all our villains blufsf by just calling.
The big problem here is the turn.
and
are in position why would we go into check call mode.Because he let 5 people see the flop
still don't know how we can go into check call mode when on the button lol
Hadnt really noticed the 2 shorter stacks.
My issue with letting 5 see the flop is the increased range potential. But I agree when hoping to catch the weaker A behind its about a good a flop as your going to get.
I do overanalyse things at times. I have to wonder why Opponent leads flop small after opening pre then 3 bet jams turn. It looks a lot like 3's full, more so than an AQ type hand, but you could both be holding the same hand. The shove turn could be defensive though, or massively overplaying an inferior A.
Like I say, I def re raise flop if not 3 bet pre, not happy for that many people to go to turn in any instance.
I might raise flop, but calling is fine imo.
Dont like the turn raise, I think it overreps your hand, if you flat flop then flat turn as well. raise/fold turn is lolbad unless yu have some cast iron read he only raises better and calls with lots worse
raising flop because he might hit a 5 outer is bad imo. Whether you raise or flat depends what range he continues with when you raise
you 3bet AK because worse will call, its not to make people fold garbage
Raise flop is good if he continues with worse. But the point you make about turn applies to flop also, we are either way ahead or way behind. We can raise if he continues with enough worse hands, but the reason is again for value, not so we might stop him sucking out, when hes only about 10% at best to do so. I think I like the flat, its a multiway pot and we keep the weaker part of his range in ip.
Raising turn might be ok too if we know he stacks off with Ax, but in general I prefer flatting
flop raise is also for value if we do it, not to protect against 5 outers. Whether raising or flatting is better depends on how other players play. There are lots of players I would fold AQ to if I was raised in a multiway pot on that board, I doubt most at 10NL would, but we still have to consider do enough worse hands call, how often villain barrells turn etc
as played pre
raise flop
shove turn
What I disagree completely with is the stuff you are writing about protecting your hand against a guy binking 2 pair or trips. Its completely wrong imo. Answer the questions in my previous post, and I will see if we do agree
1. Raising for protection makes no sense to me, especially on a board like this. You want a call so its a value raise, if he calls we havent protected anything
2. Just because we have the best hand doesnt automatically mean we should raise. More important factors are what range he continues with, how he reacts to certain cards coming down etc
Its hard say what is best in this hand readless. But I think I like either calling down, or vbetting 3 streets. I also think being clear about why you take every action you take is important to improving your game. The amount of times I do stuff like cbet without thinking and go wtf did I do that for on that board
You want players in the hand with inferior holdings if you call or raise
You should not play in fear of someone outdrawing you
You should try and thin the field by raising not because your scared of the outdraw but it thins the range they are calling with
Plus if you take any hand 5 way the odds are against you so you should raise to better your odds of winning by infact thinning the field. For example if you have AA you do not want to play this versus 4 do you.
At best if you say o yes 100% a 10 then maybe you can just call down cheaply.
You know most of the time the guy gonna turn over Ax so you just stack
Maybe the guy has bet his ten and now because you have not raised him he has outdrawn you, and now you have to be good enough to lay down as you decided to play your hand this way.
Looking at the flat pre aswell that has just decreased your percentage of winning the hand so good luck I feel as you are putting yourself in a dificult spot when this villian gets aggro with his 10 or Ax.
You fold he shows Ax lol, start hitting yourself with a large brick.
Think by raising pre they will come along with Ax anyway so all is good
By raising flop the Ax will come along aswell
So it's value, value value and shove turn and he will not be good enough to fold Ax
Raising may be best on all streets, I think there is certainly an argument for flatting flop and turn. I dont think the fact you flat flop means you cant raise turn, although if I was raising I prefer doing it on flop because you usually get called lighter, and the T maybe a scarecard for him. Raising at any point without being committed to stacking off v villain is total spew imo
Rancid, if the asumption he never folds Ax to a raise is true, raising everywhere is fine. Im not so sure its true though, and I think we can get as much value by flatting ip postflop, especially as if he checks we dont miss a street of value. Also as regards not putting ourselves in difficult spots I always kinda hate that argument, like the easiest way to play the hand is fold or shove pre, but I'm pretty certain its not the optimum way
I belive you should find yourself in better spots with easy decisions is optimum. To put yourself in a spot because of the way you played the hand and now you ain't got a clue what they holding then frankly I think it's bad poker. To put yourself in a spot where you have to keep making these tough calls can be the differance between good and great players and also between winning small or big pots.
I just can not see an aurgument to flatting here while you hold TPTK.
Your only hoping that someone does your betting for you. If someone has TPGK then either way you play they are either going to come along or fold so why not stretch the value you get from them rarther than give them a chance to get away. While I can also see it's sometimes very profitbale to check TPTK doing the same in position just feels a bit odd unless you know this guy is going to keep betting. It's like flopping trips and a guy leads out, a raise looks more like you have not got it than just a flat. Guy shuts down on the turn and you loose value. If you raise then he will come along and you get more value.
it's an intresting thought process.