Abusing the clock on ladders and Finally sticking it in.

AMYBR

Was playing a $150k Guarentee elsewhere $109 buy in, 1714 seats  Sailed through the bubble with arond 300 BB's, bubble bursting at 204.

Was pretty card dead for a while post bubble, also tricky stacks around, behind and in front.  So was stuck playing ABC for awhile.  Turbo - ish at 5min blinds.

Cash levels are peeling away pretty quick as i think the top 20 stacks had vast majority of chips

So I get down to the last 50, which is a decent pay day, but each pay bump is pretty significant (@ 5 then 3 seat intervals up until last 8).

But I'm card dead and there's just no real opportunity to jam on the blinds in an unraised pot, as raises are going in in front of me who'll have literally no fold equity if I jam.

So I abuse the clock, eeking out every second given to me, hoping the field thins through the pay brackets.  I got some grief for this.  But each pay bump was significant through the 5 levels I was able to wait out.  Waiting not being my preffered approach but my hands were tied, given action behind me.  Trust me am sticking my last 15BB's in blind in an unraised pot in LP but I'm just not getting the opportunity.  The difference between 50th and 18th being a little over $900

So, is it huge bad form sitting out the clock to eek out the paybump?  I've always figured it was pretty standard..

Finally get it in 6 handed with Ad9d UTG with 4BB's left, just as I teeter over the next payjump @ 18th place for $1268.  Yes dribbling down to 4BB's is gross.  But couldnt justify putting my stack earlier in this instance, as it would have been like putting money in the bin.  Literally no unopened spots, no hand that played well against raisers range, often multi jams already due to the turboish relative short stack nature.

I dont love getting myself in such bad shape but I had zero room to do anything with action in front, + people were flying out of the tournament the chip avg being triple most of the opponents who were stacked lower than myself.

So how do you guys feel about abusing the clock and despite action at table do you find a spot to put it in regardless of seen action? 

rancid

Abuse it when you need 2 )
Seems to be dam standard if short stacked to take your time and ladder up slightly using this method.
I took a short stack from level 2 to final table in a MTTbounty hunter and finished fourth without taking one bounty so hey good luck

waller02

yeah fair play to ya, i'd do the same just like many others, when there are significant ladder ups available no probs with using the clock,
it is annoying when the shoe is on the other foot though lol but we all do it

nice cash as well by the way, wp

grantorino

drives me mad, but lots of people do it

surely you could have got it in before getting down to 4bb?

MrWh1te

I do this often.  I know it is not optimum play and I am probably losing value but my game is to grind for small daily profits knowing every so often I will take down a decent win and it works for me.

Sometimes, like yesterday, I do hate myself for it.  I was $100 odd down and looking at an awful day.  I went deep in a game, something like top 40 pay, and went from being on the bubble to 8th through turtling like I had never turtled before.  Got myself into a good position but shoved with eights and bb called with AQ and hit.

yes by shoving earlier I might have bust for nothing, but turtling for $83 ($2 buyin) turned an awful day into just a bad one and will lead to me playing better today.

I know its not the best way to poker but it is the way that suits me.

Yours was clearly for more money and I see nothing wrong with it

DeucesLive

I don't mind clock abuse in satellites, but not a fan in MTTs, I always play them to win rather than mincash

but if it's a tourney where mincashing means quite a lot, then fair play I guess- I personally am never too bothered by it in a tournament, blind levels are pretty intense at that stage so people slowing down the rate really isn't too bad, and they pretty much announce that their blinds are free to steal- so as long as you're happy with that, knock yourself out.

AMYBR

Yeah I dont really make a habit of doing it as its rare I'll get myself in such bad shape stackwise.  I often feel that what you gain by abusing the clock you lose in terms of less hands played per orbit and opportunity to pick up a shoving hand before the blinds reach a point where youre hand is of little meaning.

Really didnt get a chance to put it in Grantorino.  Best option was getting it in with 4's in the cut off with 28BB's with 2 all ins in front of me, which i wasnt really prepared to do as stack was too big  in relation to brackets and lower stacked opponents to click and pray.

9s10s @ 14 BB's on the button being the next best option, but some shipped in front of me, but BB only had 3BB;s so just wasnt a great spot either.  No real spots to put money in at all.

Got to admit it annoys me when others do it but I understand it.  Like you say dueces, your pretty much waving a flag saying free chips

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Abusing the clock on ladders and Finally sticking it in.:

yeah fair play to ya, i'd do the same just like many others, when there are significant ladder ups available no probs with using the clock, it is annoying when the shoe is on the other foot though lol but we all do it nice cash as well by the way, wp
Posted by waller02

thank you sir.  MTT's are my bread and butter but I've been a bit hit or miss lately.  Kind of get into modes where I'm pretty zen and dont put a chip in bad for long spells, but then others I just lose focus.  To much time at the table I suspect.

I dont have the fancy 4 bet air IP modes most of these internet guys love so much, so I become pretty hand dependant at times.  Dont get me wrong am happy to come over the top of a serial raiser pre with no hand, but my game is more centred around extracting value with a hand and punishing the weaker players post.  Did use image nicely against two serial raisers for 50% of my stack late in this one with a 4bet on the button with 27 though

GaryQQQ

I'll usually only find myself at 4BB if I've lost an all-in pot against a shorter stack. At 10BB my shoving/reshoving range is getting wider and wider before I lose all remaining fold equity. I'd much rather flip with 10BB than get it in as a 70/30 fav with 4BB. I almost never use clock abuse in an MTT, but I'd consider it on a big pay jump. With 19 left I'd have the other two tables open so I can see if there's any point.

AMYBR

Yeah had 3 tables open. 

Not often I'll find myself with 4BB's either.  But as said it was a turbo and couldnt really find a hand to justify putting my stack in from 30BB's downwards, given that there were numerous seriously shorter stacks and each pay bump was significant.

As I say any unopened pot my 18<BB's would have gone in blind.  But with pay jumps peeling uber quickly its not that profitable to call off your stack with two rag crads into an all in in front of you when there are shorter stacks ahead that are priced in in the blinds. 

So I crossed a metabolic point of 12BB's that then just became a wait it out for each significant jump. 

I agree, normally would never get that short.  But in this case it felt stupid to do anything else.

Plus top 5 seats were pretty solid money.  If I can ladder up an extra few ladders great.  If I can go on a minirun from the 6 -12 BB spot even better.  But there really were no good spots, or even good gambling spots.  If I had found suited gappers or any hand of potential I'd have been in.

Ok, say UTG+1+2 jams 18 BB's.  Your sat with 9 - 15 BB's with ?? SB holding 4 BB's BB holding 6BB's.

Whats your calling range?

The_Don90

I play these big runner fields alot, usually bigger (nearer 4000 deep) in honesty. I dont usually use the clock. Uusually the ones im playing dont have sucnificant pay jumps and im rarley short at latter stages.

However in this case i fully agree with your play. Well done on a decent cash aswell btw.

AMYBR

ty.  If I'd of made top 3 i'd have been on next plane to vegas with it