A live game scenario, I bet you would do the same.. but what if....?

FlashFlush

Blinds are 200/400, im sat in the BB with around 7.5k. Folds round to the button who raises 2.4k (he has me outstacked but oly by around 2-3k), SB folds... Im thinking WOW thats a big raise 6xBB?? I look at my cards i have JJ ....

WHAT WOULD YOU DO HERE? ANSWER THE POLL BEFORE READING THE REST OF THE POST!......












I shoved all in as im sure most of you would do! He thought about it for ages then said i think this is a bad call but im going to anyway!! He shows KQ, and hit K on the turn..

 Now here is another way to look at the hand!
Flat call the raise of 2,400 leaving around 5k behind, then on any flop as im first to act go allin... If it is a low flop (like it was) they cant call another 5k on K high or A high... If the flop is a high flop I.E A,K,7 then if they had AK,AQ they were probably going to call your preflop shove anyway!! so you are always going to lose...

 My point is, once u go all in on flop and get called you will see all 5 cards, if you flat call you are only giving them 3 cards to hit, before they have to call an all in....
 
I think this way is against the "norm" of what people would do, but could be more profitable/ less risk

apollo_11

Hi Flash

I would call and wait to see the flop before deciding what to do.
I don't like playing J J at anytime.

scotty77

Premium hand + under 20BB AI

dantb10

all in pre. what if u flat pre and flop comes a k k, u just fold? what hand did the raiser have? u have no information at all in which to make your decision and will prob fold the best hand.

In this position the majority of the time the button is just stealing or has a medeocre holding so your reshove should get through more often than not.

Try not to be results orientated, u got it in ahead mate and thats all you can do.

F-B-I

In Response to A live game scenario, I bet you would do the same.. but what if....?:

Blinds are 200/400, im sat in the BB with around 7.5k. Folds round to the button who raises 2.4k (he has me outstacked but oly by around 2-3k), SB folds... Im thinking WOW thats a big raise 6xBB?? I look at my cards i have JJ .... WHAT WOULD YOU DO HERE? ANSWER THE POLL BEFORE READING THE REST OF THE POST!...... I shoved all in as im sure most of you would do! He thought about it for ages then said i think this is a bad call but im going to anyway!! He shows KQ, and hit K on the turn..  Now here is another way to look at the hand! Flat call the raise of 2,400 leaving around 5k behind, then on any flop as im first to act go allin... If it is a low flop (like it was) they cant call another 5k on K high or A high... If the flop is a high flop I.E A,K,7 then if they had AK,AQ they were probably going to call your preflop shove anyway!! so you are always going to lose...  My point is, once u go all in on flop and get called you will see all 5 cards, if you flat call you are only giving them 3 cards to hit, before they have to call an all in....   I think this way is against the "norm" of what people would do, but could be more profitable/ less risk
Posted by FlashFlush

was this a tourny or a single game ?? if a tourny at what stage are you. if its near the beginning or middle then a call followed by the all in would have been better .if near the end then an all in is the right call

BlackFish3

flash flush what you described is a stop and go and that would of actually been a perfect situation to do it in. Roughly 57 43 in your favour but by showing him the flop only it becomes more like a 66 33... so nice thinking, i always forget this move is in my arsenal.

BlackFish3

You have to shove any flop though, even the worst flops you can imagine, only then will it work.

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: A live game scenario, I bet you would do the same.. but what if....?:

You have to shove any flop though, even the worst flops you can imagine, only then will it work.
Posted by BlackFish3

 Thats exactly my point in the original post... At the end of the day if they had AK,AQ etc, they were going to call my shove preflop anyway, so either way i would lose the hand, but if it IS a low flop gives another chance for them to fold

Grimstar30

Id flat call.. see if a danger card hits (he most prob has air or AQ-AJ kinda hand).. then ship them in if the flop comes dead. he would prob not call - this works if you are first to act though.

scotty77

In Response to Re: A live game scenario, I bet you would do the same.. but what if....?:

In Response to Re: A live game scenario, I bet you would do the same.. but what if....? :  Thats exactly my point in the original post... At the end of the day if they had AK,AQ etc, they were going to call my shove preflop anyway, so either way i would lose the hand, but if it IS a low flop gives another chance for them to fold
Posted by FlashFlush

Is your live game different to online?  Say you had something like T9cc in the exact same spot, would you consider shipping it in versus what is likely to be a BTN steal?

If you can move AI with a fairly wide range in this spot then an AI with JJ is totally standard because you have to balance your ranges.

Also ok say you flat and the flop comes 2 9 5....do you insta ship it all in or do you check looking to trap?

BlackFish3

Stop and go is so perfect here... pushes the odds even more in your favour, you pretty much cant go wrong as long as you go through with shoving on any flop... nice thinking though, its quite rare this sort of situation comes up.

IRISHROVER

must be fold x6 bet is saying 2 me race me ak aq kq  or ahead with qq , kk , aa ,

which means u are underdog at best a race , so fold is justified ,

and u only had 400 in with 7.1k left after fold ,

seems wise 2 wait for better cards with almost 18 bigblinds left .

unknown_username

cant believe he called,,,,, im stop and go there but if the player had been doing it alot im allin,

goodylad21

I would normally re raise all in especially if he has been BTN raising often x6 BB is a very strange raise and would have me scratching my head!!! I like your other way of thinking and flat calling and pushing on any decent flop and think that is a very good play, an A or a K on a flop and you can get rid of it !!!

The_Don90

Im all in, in this senario,

The player who raised had a reason to raise with his/her hand and every reason to call. The player has 6 outs, but your winning, and unlucky for him to hit the king on the turn. That meant you had 2 outs left on the river which is rather unlikley.

This is one of those situations when you go over the top and you meet a dealer who has the goods. For all you known pre-flop is that the dealer was sitting with nothing and may have been setting up the button bluff, using power of position as an advantage.

In the end you lost and go out, however i must say if i went out like that, i would think at least i went out with something decent and i was winning when i went all in. Its one of those situations. Although this is one reason why i dont like pocket pairs much lol.

DeuceAK_47

Easy decision= All in

A ace,king or queen is going to hit the fop 60% of the time if they have two of the three cards and 70% if they have a underpair which you totally crush pre-flop. (If you had position the call would not be as bad)

The 30% of the time the board is low, you are a massive favourite to win the hand and your only going to add a 1/3 to your stack if you push all in on the flop.

Also,it looks like they do not want a call so you can probably take QQ+ and AK out of there range, so your fold equity against a good players range is massive.

MereNovice

Use "Stop and Go" if you're trying to preserve your tournament life - it maximises your chance of winning the pot.
Shove pre-flop if you're trying to win the tournament - it maximises your chance of winning the most chips.

webby234

In Response to A live game scenario, I bet you would do the same.. but what if....?:

Blinds are 200/400, im sat in the BB with around 7.5k. Folds round to the button who raises 2.4k (he has me outstacked but oly by around 2-3k), SB folds... Im thinking WOW thats a big raise 6xBB?? I look at my cards i have JJ .... WHAT WOULD YOU DO HERE? ANSWER THE POLL BEFORE READING THE REST OF THE POST!...... I shoved all in as im sure most of you would do! He thought about it for ages then said i think this is a bad call but im going to anyway!! He shows KQ, and hit K on the turn..  Now here is another way to look at the hand! Flat call the raise of 2,400 leaving around 5k behind, then on any flop as im first to act go allin... If it is a low flop (like it was) they cant call another 5k on K high or A high... If the flop is a high flop I.E A,K,7 then if they had AK,AQ they were probably going to call your preflop shove anyway!! so you are always going to lose...  My point is, once u go all in on flop and get called you will see all 5 cards, if you flat call you are only giving them 3 cards to hit, before they have to call an all in....   I think this way is against the "norm" of what people would do, but could be more profitable/ less risk
Posted by FlashFlush

cant beleive most of the players reckon you should shove all in in that situation, i think i would fold 99 times out of 100, your only losing 400 chips and will get so many better oppertunitys to get your money infront, it was a race, and if your willing to race for your tournament then fair enough, personally that is a fold every day of the week

Kristopher

I'm all in every time in this scenario, it is the correct thing to do IMO