Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?)

Mohican

First level of a 10,000 stack tourney in my local pub league end of season grand final. £20+5(+5 optinal bounty which all took). UTG +1 raises to 400(blinds 50/100) and I three bet to 1200 with QQ(in position). I've never played the villian before(turns out  he's an aggro maniac who called a pot sized bet for a gutshot later on) and he reshoves  to put me all in.So nearly 100 bb's deep I'm asked to call for my tourney with QQ. I put him on  AA,KK or AK.  So I folded.
 So I put it to you, too nitty a fold or good fold with out any reads, I had him on AK but are you still calling on a coin flip???? He said afterwards he had AK and after playing him for a while I believe he had that. If this hand had happened two levels later I would've snapped called knowing he had AK.

The_Don90

I think because ur readless and its first hand the fold cant be bad. If you know hes a lagtard as u said youd call. but you have to take the thoughts from the information you have at the time.

LOL_RAISE

if you're going to 3bet then fold QQ flatting his open raise is probably best

grantorino

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

if you're going to 3bet then fold QQ flatting his open raise is probably best
Posted by LOL_RAISE

+1

liamboi11

Y flat his opening raise better wae qq what happens he call the raise and flop comes 9 7 2 rainbow and opponent cont bet we dunno if hes it doin that with ak or aa or kk or am i wrong thinking this way ? just asking coz im still learning myself lol

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?) : +1
Posted by grantorino

I never get this.

Isn't it the same as saying "if you're going to bet fold, you might as well check" ???

You're three betting to get value from the hands that he will continue with, that QQ can beat... that's ALOT of hands......

Why is 3b folding different to bet/folding? Why is 1 bad, and the other good?

Mohican

With him shoving for 100bbs I strongly suspect he has AK(AA or KK he's probably four betting to around  4.5k). Do I need to get it all-in on a coin flip when I can fold and have just under 90bbs left to play with. As the saying goes,you can't win a tourney in the first level.

GREGHOGG

open fold pre

Mohican

 In Response to Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

open fold pre
Posted by GREGHOGG

The King of Nits has spoken. I obviously  have some work on my game before i'm even close to being classed as a nit.

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?) : I never get this. Isn't it the same as saying "if you're going to bet fold, you might as well check" ??? You're three betting to get value from the hands that he will continue with, that QQ can beat... that's ALOT of hands...... Why is 3b folding different to bet/folding? Why is 1 bad, and the other good?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

we have 0 reads how do we know what villains flatting or 4b range is

DOHHHHHHH

Don't you have to make some automatic assumptions without reads?

You assume he'll raise AA pre, you assume he'll fold 72 utg....

You assume he'll 4b aces and kings, you can also assume he'll flat 3bets with stuff like 10's Jacks andAQs etc.

If you don't make assumptions how can you play? just click buttons and hope?

grantorino

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?) : I never get this. Isn't it the same as saying "if you're going to bet fold, you might as well check" ??? You're three betting to get value from the hands that he will continue with, that QQ can beat... that's ALOT of hands...... Why is 3b folding different to bet/folding? Why is 1 bad, and the other good?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

To 3bet/fold we need to know he calls lots with worse and never raises worse. We have ~40% equity against AK,KK+ so we need 1.5/1 to call, we have about 1.27/1 (assuming 100BB deep) so we need to be damn sure his 4bet range is not wider and that he doesnt ever flat KK+. There are plenty of villains who flat 3bets close to never oop, especially after opening in EP. If you have reads on villain you can maybe 3bet fold, but I would rarely do it 

Whats the difference between b/f and 3b/f? Not much. But I wouldnt bet fold the 3rd nuts often.  check probably better than b/f in a situation where villain has very narrow calling range and we have strong hand

liamboi11

a prefer the 3 bet pre flop is narrow down the hands he could have he could have for i.e jj,10s,9s also poss ak or aq if he calls ur 3 bet and if he 4 bet allin it is most likely aa,kk maybe do it with ak and poss qq but unlikely with mohican holding 2 of them so overall a dont mind the 3 bet fold 1st hand in tourney but what if u elect to call and it comes 972 rainbow he cont bet do we raise on the flop to find out where we are then fold to a shove we would prob lose more money this way ?

DOHHHHHHH

So a good player will only ever 3b you for value if they are prepared to go all in?

liamboi11

sorry doh a dont understand what u mean?

grantorino

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

So a good player will only ever 3b you for value if they are prepared to go all in?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

not exactly, its more raise folding the 3rd nuts readless kinda sucks when its very possible he has a narrow calling range 

yb

tbh I think 3b/folding is fine readless in this sort of tourny, people aren't normally going to be getting all their chips in pre in the first blind level without AA/KK.

dohh b/fing is generally more useful than 3b/fing because someone's calling range to a single bet is generally a lot wider than to a 3bet preflop, and also people often play very nitty postflop at the lower stakes.

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

Don't you have to make some automatic assumptions without reads? You assume he'll raise AA pre, you assume he'll fold 72 utg.... You assume he'll 4b aces and kings, you can also assume he'll flat 3bets with stuff like 10's Jacks andAQs etc. If you don't make assumptions how can you play? just click buttons and hope?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

ofc

leon621

In Response to Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

First level of a 10,000 stack tourney in my local pub league end of season grand final. £20+5(+5 optinal bounty which all took). UTG +1 raises to 400(blinds 50/100) and I three bet to 1200 with QQ(in position). I've never played the villian before(turns out  he's an aggro maniac who called a pot sized bet for a gutshot later on) and he reshoves  to put me all in.So nearly 100 bb's deep I'm asked to call for my tourney with QQ. I put him on  AA,KK or AK.  So I folded.  So I put it to you, too nitty a fold or good fold with out any reads, I had him on AK but are you still calling on a coin flip???? He said afterwards he had AK and after playing him for a while I believe he had that. If this hand had happened two levels later I would've snapped called knowing he had AK.
Posted by Mohican

if your playing a player who calls big raises without getting the odds to do so, why would you call him later on, on a coin toss?

Mohican

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

In Response to Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?) : if your playing a player who calls big raises without getting the odds to do so, why would you call him later on, on a coin toss?
Posted by leon621

I would insta call later on in the tourney because:
a-I would've had reads on him
b- stacks would be shallower
c- a three bet would pot commit me.
This is the whole crux of my question-100bb's deep,isn't just better to fold ?
Two levels later 200/400 I'm never three bet/folding with QQ especially having seen him call for a gutshot and I'm happy to call for a coin flip if i put him on AK, but opening level 100bbs deep with out reads,it's not a bad fold????

leon621

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?):

In Response to Re: Yes or No?(Am I turning into Greghogg?) : I would insta call later on in the tourney because: a-I would've had reads on him b- stacks would be shallower c- a three bet would pot commit me. This is the whole crux of my question-100bb's deep,isn't just better to fold ? Two levels later 200/400 I'm never three bet/folding with QQ especially having seen him call for a gutshot and I'm happy to call for a coin flip if i put him on AK, but opening level 100bbs deep with out reads,it's not a bad fold????
Posted by Mohican

ok good answer i just hate flipping with players that i consider poor