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This hand has been bugging me all day
This is a hand from last night. I thought I did the right thing at the time but it's been bugging me all day so I thought I'd get some opinion on it. I won't reveal what I did as I don't want skewed opinions. What I want to know here is long term what's the best way forward on the flop.
Player 1 in the SB hasn't been at the table long. I don't recall playing him previously but I've seen him around the forum.
Player 2 has posted UTG & I've no notes on him.
I decide to tag along OTB looking for a good flop. This is my first problem though. I don't often limp into pots, particularly at this level but figured that with position I had a hand that if I flopped well enough I could make some moniez. What's the opinion on taking a flop here? Should this always be a 3 bet in position or is limping along just too fishy? My thought's at the time was that I'm not gonna like a lot of flops even if I hit my ace but it's a hand with some potential.
On the flop is where I have my main problem with the hand. Short of having 3 clubs land I've pretty much hit the flop how I wanted. However, with the bet & raise I "know" that I'm behind here. I think it's reasonable to assume that at least one of them holds a king & as long as I'm not up against 2p or a set then my ace is possibly live too. At this stage I figure I've only really got two choices.
1 - FOLD - Do I really want to do this though when I've hit the flop I wanted, even though I "know" I'm behind.
2 - RAISE - If I do this then I do so with the intention of getting it all in on the flop if possible as I've still got two cards to come. I also thought that if I raised here then I've got more chance of player 1 hanging around & if I make it committing enough I'm sure I could stack him if I hit. If I flat here & hit on the turn then I think there's less chance of player 1 staying in.
I didn't really like the idea of just flatting here cos if I miss my draw on the turn then I'm likely to find myself in a real difficult spot.
So long term, what's the best move here.
Player 1 in the SB hasn't been at the table long. I don't recall playing him previously but I've seen him around the forum.
Player 2 has posted UTG & I've no notes on him.
I decide to tag along OTB looking for a good flop. This is my first problem though. I don't often limp into pots, particularly at this level but figured that with position I had a hand that if I flopped well enough I could make some moniez. What's the opinion on taking a flop here? Should this always be a 3 bet in position or is limping along just too fishy? My thought's at the time was that I'm not gonna like a lot of flops even if I hit my ace but it's a hand with some potential.
On the flop is where I have my main problem with the hand. Short of having 3 clubs land I've pretty much hit the flop how I wanted. However, with the bet & raise I "know" that I'm behind here. I think it's reasonable to assume that at least one of them holds a king & as long as I'm not up against 2p or a set then my ace is possibly live too. At this stage I figure I've only really got two choices.
1 - FOLD - Do I really want to do this though when I've hit the flop I wanted, even though I "know" I'm behind.
2 - RAISE - If I do this then I do so with the intention of getting it all in on the flop if possible as I've still got two cards to come. I also thought that if I raised here then I've got more chance of player 1 hanging around & if I make it committing enough I'm sure I could stack him if I hit. If I flat here & hit on the turn then I think there's less chance of player 1 staying in.
I didn't really like the idea of just flatting here cos if I miss my draw on the turn then I'm likely to find myself in a real difficult spot.
So long term, what's the best move here.
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| PLAYER 1 | Small blind | £0.02 | £0.02 | £4.01 | |
| ------ | Big blind | £0.04 | £0.06 | £5.88 | |
| PLAYER 2 | Big blind | £0.04 | £0.10 | £1.14 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| PLAYER 2 | Raise | £0.04 | £0.14 | £1.10 | |
| ------ | Fold | ||||
| ------ | Fold | ||||
| silentbob | Call | £0.08 | £0.22 | £8.71 | |
| PLAYER 1 | Call | £0.06 | £0.28 | £3.95 | |
| ------ | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| PLAYER 1 | Bet | £0.28 | £0.56 | £3.67 | |
| PLAYER 2 | Raise | £0.56 | £1.12 | £0.54 | |
| silentbob | ??? | ||||
Comments
pre is prob ok if blinds likely to call though. If utg was fully stacked its a clear call
As played I 3bet the flop and get it in. SB should fold lots of hands and we can get it in with utg with a nice chunk of dead money in pot. If SB comes along we should still have decent equity
Silentbob you have what must be the perfect flop that you called for yes?
So as played its a ship the lot in jobby
gl m8 xx
Cash game limp pre is fine, no need to get to fancy.
Player 1 is your only concern here. But the action is set nicely for you. He opens, gets raised by shorty, great spot for you to make it £2.20, letting him decide to fold or jam. If he flats your matching his bet or putting him in on turn on any card.
Hand plays itself IMO, just get it in. Good leverage over player 1, player 2's stack is immaterial, whether you make your hand or not.
This is an ideal flop for your ace 4 suited surely, if u flat call and miss the clubs, then his going to go all in anyway on the turn.
he has another 54p behind so id just go all in the flop and race to hit ur clubs or not.
Whether this is the correct play or not long term i dnt know...its not a hand i would normally play as its so flop dependant, even if u hit an ace ur worried cos of the small kicker.
the reason is, player 2 only has £1.10 behind after his raise, so thats the maximum you can win from him
so, even if you hit the flush, you don't win enough to offset the times you miss your flush. also, with his re-raise on the flop, you have zero fold equity
it's a bit like set-mining, if the guy doesn't have a decent stack, even if u hit u can't win enough to offset the times u miss
The flop was as good as you could have expected without flopping the nut flush, with A4 suited what were you hoping for on the flop to give you that win, 44A, or A4*, that would be the only other hands that would be good for you, a single ace on the flop would have been the worst card for you with that kicker, so for me its either a 4x pre flop raise, or a fold, post flop its fold with those bets, someones probably got 2 pair or a set, and if one has a flush draw, you in deep doo doo with less clubs to hit, so my advice would be fold, or as dirty harry would say, 'do you feel lucky' but you aint getting the pot odds to call.
Also most players aren't folding TP here so for me you know you're getting called and hence are gambling which you just don't need to do at this level lol in fact it's basically tilt for me shoving here.
EDIT : What did he have btw ?
He opts to nit it up, which is fine, it seems to work for him,it doesnt mean its the best way to play. There are plenty of situations where calling with a hand like this is profitable
Yes you have some REGS, from my recent sessions I can probably name about 10-15 at a push, now how many players on total do you think play 4NL..... Yes you got it a LOT more than that, so in general REGS leave me alone I leave them alone and we both hoover up the dead money - which is every other player.
Also yep that is my range down here and I'm happy to tell the world because there are SO many new and bad players playing every day it won't make a jot of difference, and of course when I eventually move up to say NL20 terrtory I'll loosen up a bit but just no need right now - currently 1650 bb's up over around 8500-9000 hands.
IN THIS SPECIFIC HAND, the raiser has less than 30BB so its not profitable
sets and nut flush draws are great but you need to get paid when you hit to make up for the times you miss - that wont happen here - you also have to factor in you wont get paid everytime you hit
Codex I think its maybe ok to call here given its a minraise and there is a huge chance blinds come along at 4NL. I agree completely with your point in general though