How important is Maths in poker?

mickgreen

Now i have been playing poker for around 2 years now and i am pretty much breaking even, maybe down a few hundred dollers. However i can honestly say i almost never calculate pot odds or percentages when playing online? Although i do no how to calculate odds etc, i am still unaware as to what to do when i have worked out my % of winning? How do i know whether to call or raise etc???

This leads me onto my main question as to how important is it to calculate odds and percentages when playing online??

aiken2001

Maths in general is very important. Knowing your chances of hitting the flush etc.

Pot odds have there own place which imho is fairly limited in the game.

An instance where it is important is heads up against someone with the river card to come.

You are 4 cards to the nut flush no pairs on board.

Pot is 1000 (take make the math easier) and its 200 to make the call.

There fore you are getting 6/1 on your money and the odds of you hitting are 9/46

So your getting good value to make the call

Change it round to 800 in the pot and 200 to make the call and it becomes a marginal call

tapeworm

In order to ensure you outride the luck factor in poker, you must ensure you are getting the best odds you can with any given hand. This way even if you lose a hand, if you had the correct odds over time you will make money.

This is the general idea anyway. Other people will be able to explain it better but in short, they are very important if you want to become a winning player.

Codex

lets say there is 1000 in the pot on the turn and there is 2 to the flush

if the flush hits you lose if opponent has flush draw but if it doesnt hit, you win - how much should you bet?


if u bet 500, your opponent will have to put 500 into a 1500 pot to see the river - so he's getting 3 to 1 on his money on a very roughly 4 to 1 shot

if he makes the call a lot of times, he loses money and if u bet and get called a lot of times in the same situation, you win, regardless of the outcome of each hand


if you bet 200, your opponent has to bet 200 to win 1200 so 6 to 1 on his money on the 4 to 1 chance - in this situation, its profitable to draw and unprofitable to make the bet



to sum up, you want to be making decisions that if you make 100000 times, you will end up winning

to do that, u need maths


i've deliberately ignored implied odds to make the example simpler but basically, you can call profitably if you dont quite have the odds on the assumption when you make your draw you will make more money on the river

tapeworm

Google "The Poker Bank" it has some excellent articles on there that will help

Talon

 The use of maths is vitally important in poker. But the thing to remember especially online is the limited thinking time available so you need to be able to do these calculations almost instantly. The best way to do this is to use the rule of 4 and 2. So for a quick example if you have an oesd on the flop that you need to hit (8 outs) this makes it 32% which is nearly 2 to 1 which means that the calling of a pot sized bet is correct mathematically because you will be calling at exactly 2 to 1.

  The thing that people get caught up on is the fact that mathematics needs to be allied to reads on opponent as well. Pot odds only exist when you are behind and looking to improve/go ahead. When you are ahead and know it then the important thing here is to give your opponent the wrong odds to call or brilliant odds to call when you suspect they have a dead draw.

  The main thing to always do though is to keep it simple to make your decisions easier. A good tip here is after folding your hand imagine you are still in the pot and try to work out whether you are getting the odds to call based on the betting of the live players.This will get you into the habit of calculating quickly until it will almost become second nature to you.

DAVEYZZ

a lot of pro's think maths is THE most important part of poker..

if you have'nt got it try and read sklansky's theory of poker...it will improve you no end...imo

gl,dave

scrumdown

geting 25% or over call

Codex

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker?:

. So for a quick example if you have an oesd on the flop that you need to hit (8 outs) this makes it 32% which is nearly 2 to 1 which means that the calling of a pot sized bet is correct mathematically because you will be calling at exactly 2 to 1.  
Posted by Talon

If the pot is £1000 and someone bets the pot, the pot becomes £2000
You now need to pay £2000 for the chance to win £2000 1:1

Therefore you need a 50% chance to win to breakeven - which an Open Ended Straight Draw is not

Talon

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker?:

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker? : If the pot is £1000 and someone bets the pot, the pot becomes £2000 You now need to pay £2000 for the chance to win £2000 1:1 Therefore you need a 50% chance to win to breakeven - which an Open Ended Straight Draw is not
Posted by Codex

  In your example if someone bets pot into a £1000 potmaking it £2000, then you only have to call £1000 not £2000 therefore making it exactly 2 to 1 not 1 to 1.A call of a pot sized bet is always 2 to 1 regardless of amounts.

GaryQQQ

It is defo an important part of the game. If you spend a few hours reading-up on the basics until you've got a reasonable understanding you'll find yourself making fewer bad decisions, hence your results will improve.  

Codex

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker?:

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker? :   In your example if someone bets pot into a £1000 potmaking it £2000, then you only have to call £1000 not £2000 therefore making it exactly 2 to 1 not 1 to 1.A call of a pot sized bet is always 2 to 1 regardless of amounts.
Posted by Talon

doh, you're right, don't do maths when working on other stuff at same time

JockBMW

It's very important... How else would I know how much i've lost ;o)

AMYBR

You shouldnt be playing poker for money if you need to ask this question bud.

Math is a fundamental aspect of the game, even for pure feel players.

stien

Honestly i can't believe the question even got asked, how is it possible to be so uninformed after 2 years playing the game.
Not to be outdone the first reply contains, "Pot odds have there own place which imho is fairly limited in the game." unbelievable.

Crunchybob

If your'e playing low stakes on sky then not very important at all as ppl will call no matter what lol


I watch alot of poker on the tv and online etc...i know ppl become 'pot committed' by the amount of chips that they have put into the pot, however what i dont understand is that sometimes the player knows he is losing(albeit on a gut feeling), but because he is 'pot committed' he calls anyway,  why do they do this? why lose more chips just because its the right thing to do?

ACEGOONER

Ignore maths and you cannot win at poker.

loonytoons

'feelings' are more important IMO, if you 'feel' your ahead, or 'feel' you can knock em off when behind, thats more important, all the top players know the maths, the really good players know their senses more! maths and odds will only get you so far, luck and 'feel for the game in progress' will get you further, all the good players have good 'reads'.

unknown_username

In tournaments I rarely do the maths on any individual hand. Cash is different and the maths is the only way to long term profit.

In tournaments the major calculation is the effect on stack sizes and equity. Whether to fold or bet is for me a question of instinct based on factors such as table dynamics, player knowledge, relative stack sizes and whether my dog wags her tail or not.

loonytoons

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker?:

In tournaments I rarely do the maths on any individual hand. Cash is different and the maths is the only way to long term profit. In tournaments the major calculation is the effect on stack sizes and equity. Whether to fold or bet is for me a question of instinct based on factors such as table dynamics, player knowledge, relative stack sizes and whether my dog wags her tail or not.
Posted by elsadog

I agree, in cash its important because you will win in the long term, but in tournament play its the here and now thats important so instincts are far more important, its no good winning 4 80/20 pots then losing the fifth, because its hat on coat on and out the door!

BelovedLtd

In poker:

1. Maths is everything

2. That doesn't have to mean numbers are involved.

Fundamentally you only ever want to bet, raise, call or fold - and you only ever want your opponent to bet, raise, call or fold.

For example, any time you make a bet which is intended to make your opponent fold (or call etc) you have made a mathematical calculation as to when to bet and how much.

And every time you fold it's because you've made a calculation that either your opponent is beating you and you can't bluff them off, or you haven't got the right odds to call or even that the risk of him bluffing is too low for you to risk carrying on with your weak holding.

However much you're basing those decisions on instinct or feel it's still a mathematical equation. If somebody is on tilt, or somebody is drunk, if they're a calling station or if they're just an idiot - these are all just variables you're using to calculate whether you should bet, raise, call or fold.

Some of your instincts might involve bad and incorrect maths - like folding JJ becase it 'never' wins, or calling because you're 'pot committed' when you've got no pair, no draw and no outs - but  with or without any numbers  - it's all still maths.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker?:

In poker: 1. Maths is everything 2. That doesn't have to mean numbers are involved. Fundamentally you only ever want to bet, raise, call or fold - and you only ever want your opponent to bet, raise, call or fold. For example, any time you make a bet which is intended to make your opponent fold (or call etc) you have made a mathematical calculation as to when to bet and how much. And every time you fold it's because you've made a calculation that either your opponent is beating you and you can't bluff them off, or you haven't got the right odds to call or even that the risk of him bluffing is too low for you to risk carrying on with your weak holding. However much you're basing those decisions on instinct or feel it's still a mathematical equation. If somebody is on tilt, or somebody is drunk, if they're a calling station or if they're just an idiot - these are all just variables you're using to calculate whether you should bet, raise, call or fold. Some of your instincts might involve bad and incorrect maths - like folding JJ becase it 'never' wins, or calling because you're 'pot committed' when you've got no pair, no draw and no outs - but  with or without any numbers  - it's all still maths.
Posted by BelovedLtd

That's not instinct that's superstition.

67Bhoys

In Response to Re: How important is Maths in poker?:

In tournaments I rarely do the maths on any individual hand. Cash is different and the maths is the only way to long term profit. In tournaments the major calculation is the effect on stack sizes and equity. Whether to fold or bet is for me a question of instinct based on factors such as table dynamics, player knowledge, relative stack sizes and whether my dog wags her tail or not.
Posted by elsadog

Wow a dog that can read poker tells online, where can I buy one??