is any 2 suited worth a call of 5 BB's?

sedgley58

I ask because three times tonight i upped to 5 BB's with good hands and lost each one to a caller with 2 suited

My JJ, flop was 10,7,2, i pot raise he calls, 6 on turn, i pot raise, 3 on the river, he has 10-3 suited

My AK, flop 2,6,9, i half pot, he calls, jack on turn, i half pot, he calls, another jack i raise he calls with Q-2 suited

My AK, flop A(hearts),K and ??, i pot he all ins with K-5 suited and hits two hearts on the river and turn

If i had q-2, 10-3 or K-5 suited i would fold to a 5 BB, am I wrong or did i just hit three lucky fish who managed to knobble my BR. Only the 3rd hand flushed, other 2 were no where near, yet still bet out on 2's and 10's with a 3 kicker.

grantorino

you know the answer to this question. He shouldnt call. Never triple barrell bluff this guy

sedgley58

GT, it was 3 different opponents

AMYBR

Your not asking if its good enough to call, your asking why do people call.

Totally depends on a players skillset/stack and position.  Deep stack cash isnt about massive starting hands colliding.  Even a solid rock playing pure premium cards,  will still open up depending on stack and position.

Deepstack NLHE is a flop game, you SHOULD BE getting 100's of BB's in pre with maybe two hands.  Yet you can get 100's of BB's in on flop or river with connected draw heavy hands. 

Players detrimentaley accuse people of being a "fish" in a cash game, not really understanding that this is a purely valid way to approach the game.

I just came in from a 5hour cash session.  My least profitable hand on the night was AA aipf being cracked in two spots.  My most profitable being the 2d4d from the button in a multi way pot flopping the nut wheel, no later street weakening my hand.  Nothing wrong with calling drawy to connect with the right board.

grantorino

In Response to Re: is any 2 suited worth a call of 5 BB's?:

Your not asking if its good enough to call, your asking why do people call. Totally depends on a players skillset/stack and position.  Deep stack cash isnt about massive starting hands colliding.  Even a solid rock playing pure premium cards,  will still open up depending on stack and position. Deepstack NLHE is a flop game, you SHOULD BE getting 100's of BB's in pre with maybe two hands.  Yet you can get 100's of BB's in on flop or river with connected draw heavy hands.  Players detrimentaley accuse people of being a "fish" in a cash game, not really understanding that this is a purely valid way to approach the game. I just came in from a 5hour cash session.  My least profitable hand on the night was AA aipf being cracked in two spots.  My most profitable being the 2d4d from the button in a multi way pot flopping the nut wheel, no later street weakening my hand.  Nothing wrong with calling drawy to connect with the right board.
Posted by AMYBR

While some of the points you make are valid, I dont think you are comparing like with like.  Look at the way the hands in op played out. I would also be pretty sure they are online cash hands and so are prob less than 100BB deep. The hands in the original post are against fish

Your example also proves nothing.AA is often cracked and any two cards can make the nuts. I can see why playing 2d4d ip in the deep cash games you play would be fine though

AMYBR

Was speaking of fishing in cash in general, not essentially regarding hands posted by OP'ster.  As his question is generic in principle, extending beyond the hands he posts and talking about game theory in general.

I'm not trying to prove anything with the A's reference.  What I really meant to say is I'd be happier putting 100's of bigs in post than pre (with the right board), even with A's or K's.

He's asking is is profitable to call 5bbs with any 2 suited.  I'm providing an argument for yes in deepstack cash for the right board.  Obviously not the river suckouts seen in OP.  Was answering the broader question.

grantorino

In Response to Re: is any 2 suited worth a call of 5 BB's?:

Was speaking of fishing in cash in general, not essentially regarding hands posted by OP'ster.  As his question is generic in principle, extending beyond the hands he posts and talking about game theory in general. I'm not trying to prove anything with the A's reference.  What I really meant to say is I'd be happier putting 100's of bigs in post than pre (with the right board), even with A's or K's. He's asking is is profitable to call 5bbs with any 2 suited.  I'm providing an argument for yes in deepstack cash for the right board.  Obviously not the river suckouts seen in OP.  Was answering the broader question.
Posted by AMYBR

Generally its not, which is my point. In fact it would have to be a very specific situation (imo anyway) to make flatting a 5BB raise with T3s good. Yes you can call wider in deepstack cash, although the flipside of that is you have to be wary of non nut draws, and realize if you do get it in with a draw you will be against better than 1 pair most times unless villain is a fish.

I dont really want to have a big debate about this, the answer to op's question is probably in general you shouldnt call with hands just because they are sooted unless they have other value. Its poker so very little is absolute, there are probably exceptions to this

AMYBR

I'm not talking about 103, I would never advocate calling with random junk.

I'm talking about hands with intrinic value pre sat deep, not raggedy 103s because they are suited.

The question in the OP wasnt a real question, it was a moan.  So I expanded upon the real question behind it.  Am advocating calling to draw with a drawable hand, not being 103s or such.

I'm never calling with such a nonsense hand, I'm highlighting peoples perception that fishing, in deep stack cash, is a bad thing.

sedgley58

ok lets go for it
woooooooooooo hoooooooooooo any 2 suited is the new nuts

dragon1964	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.53
sedgley58	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
	Your hole cards	5 J
STEVOSTEG	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£2.92
villaian	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.93
EMOSUMO	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£2.27
dragon1964	Call		£0.02	£0.20	£3.51
sedgley58	Check
Flop
		10 K 2
dragon1964	Check
sedgley58	Check
STEVOSTEG	Check
villaian	Check
EMOSUMO	Check
Turn
		2
dragon1964	Check
sedgley58	Bet		£0.20	£0.40	£3.76
STEVOSTEG	Fold
villaian	Fold
EMOSUMO	Fold
dragon1964	Raise		£0.40	£0.80	£3.11
sedgley58	Raise		£1.20	£2.00	£2.56
dragon1964	All-in		£3.11	£5.11	£0.00
sedgley58	Call		£2.11	£7.22	£0.45
dragon1964	Show	8 Q
sedgley58	Show	5 J
River
		7
dragon1964	Win	Flush to the King	£6.67		£6.67

or perhaps its not

sedgley58

or perhaps it is when i dont have it

ronin8	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.78
sedgley58	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.30
	Your hole cards	Q K
KEIGHLEY	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£2.62
SHAMROC121	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£2.30
DRAK	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£5.76
ronin8	Call		£0.02	£0.20	£3.76
sedgley58	Raise		£0.16	£0.36	£3.14
KEIGHLEY	Call		£0.16	£0.52	£2.46
SHAMROC121	Call		£0.16	£0.68	£2.14
DRAK	Call		£0.16	£0.84	£5.60
ronin8	Fold
Flop
		7 2 K
sedgley58	Bet		£0.84	£1.68	£2.30
KEIGHLEY	Fold
SHAMROC121	Call		£0.84	£2.52	£1.30
DRAK	Fold
Turn
		5
sedgley58	Bet		£1.26	£3.78	£1.04
SHAMROC121	All-in		£1.30	£5.08	£0.00
sedgley58	Call		£0.04	£5.12	£1.00
sedgley58	Show	Q K
SHAMROC121	Show	K 5
River
		6
SHAMROC121	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and 5s	£4.73

sedgley58

sedgley58	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.68
danny101	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£0.70
	Your hole cards	Q 8
kasiayaz	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£1.25
lwchef08	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£1.83
fisheyboy1	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£13.11
sedgley58	Call		£0.02	£0.20	£3.66
danny101	Check
Flop
		2 Q 6
sedgley58	Bet		£0.04	£0.24	£3.62
danny101	Fold
kasiayaz	Call		£0.04	£0.28	£1.21
lwchef08	Fold
fisheyboy1	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£13.07
Turn
		6
sedgley58	Bet		£0.16	£0.48	£3.46
kasiayaz	Fold
fisheyboy1	Call		£0.16	£0.64	£12.91
River
		7
sedgley58	Bet		£0.32	£0.96	£3.14
fisheyboy1	Call		£0.32	£1.28	£12.59
sedgley58	Show	Q 8
fisheyboy1	Show	9 10
fisheyboy1	Win	Flush to the Queen	£1.18

leon621

ok you know you were against lucky fish in your original post and in most circumstances it will cost you more money calling than it will make you profit. I do like your question in a sence though because i often wonder if i had good enough reads on a opponent to put him on AA or KK then is it worth calling any two suited for about 5BB as most player will stack off holding this hand.

corn_rat22

stop limping