help with this hand because i played it badly!

waller02

i self destructed with this hand and i'm quite annoyed with how i played it. once the raise comes on the flop i feel i have to call, but where did i go wrong here??? was i just unlucky? or did i play this hand as badly as poss?

avemaria	Small blind		15.00	15.00	3065.00
waller02	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1730.00
	Your hole cards	K A
boycs365	Call		30.00	75.00	2710.00
sara36dd08	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		120.00	195.00	1870.00
sy1000	Fold
avemaria	Call		105.00	300.00	2960.00
waller02	Raise		450.00	750.00	1280.00
boycs365	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Fold
avemaria	Call		360.00	1110.00	2600.00
Flop
		Q 6 8
avemaria	Check
waller02	Bet		690.00	1800.00	590.00
avemaria	All-in		2600.00	4400.00	0.00
waller02	All-in		590.00	4990.00	0.00
avemaria	Unmatched bet		1320.00	3670.00	1320.00
avemaria	Show	Q A
waller02	Show	K A
Turn
		4
River
		9
avemaria	Win	Pair of Queens	3670.00

Dudeskin8

I'd just shove pre.

Crunchybob

Shove pre, then least u'll have the satisfaction of knowing u went in ahead lol

waller02

surely shove pre is too much this early???

maybe a flat call and give up on the flop would have been best,  I dont know! It's hands like this that cost me a lot though so maybe I will shove pre in future.....takes the ball ache away lol

Ploppy33

Early on when blinds are low I wouldnt 3-bet pre as at the levels we play at it doesnt have the desired effect of thinning the field. A7 is just as likely to come along & 33 etc. If Big PP I think u play it fine but AK doesnt play well post flop.

I would check/fold flop if u hit u generally get paid. Keep the losing with this hand to the minimum.

Late on in tourney go as looney as u like with this, I think your play here then would be ok, except possibly the call of the shove on the end.

waller02

In Response to Re: help with this hand because i played it badly!:

Early on when blinds are low I wouldnt 3-bet pre as at the levels we play at it doesnt have the desired effect of thinning the field. A7 is just as likely to come along & 33 etc. If Big PP I think u play it fine but AK doesnt play well post flop. I would check/fold flop if u hit u generally get paid. Keep the losing with this hand to the minimum. Late on in tourney go as looney as u like with this, I think your play here then would be ok, except possibly the call of the shove on the end.
Posted by Ploppy33

i fully agree ploppy, but after the raise i had 500 odd left....it was a crying call, but for a big pot it was all or nothing...i think the mistake came before my call on the flop...i thought this was a standard 3 bet with the idea of taking it down on the flop but wasnt to be

surely the way i played the hand would be successful more often than not?? i'm not sure and thats why i'm asking for advice

percival09

Your play isn't really profitable with that stack and in that position, you can't raise & cbet for like 3/4 of your stack, shove it in pre or just flat pre, i'd just shove, you're more likely to get called by a worse hand, and if not you'll be flipping which will be a + play with the money already in the pot

Crunchybob

In Response to Re: help with this hand because i played it badly!:

surely shove pre is too much this early??? maybe a flat call and give up on the flop would have been best,  I dont know! It's hands like this that cost me a lot though so maybe I will shove pre in future.....takes the ball ache away lol
Posted by waller02

Seems to me u had intentions of going all in anyway, u leave urself 590.00 behind so ur pot committed and just shove anyway, even though u miss flop.

Id, make a smaller c-bet on flop and fold to the raise

Ploppy33

In Response to Re: help with this hand because i played it badly!:

In Response to Re: help with this hand because i played it badly! : i fully agree ploppy, but after the raise i had 500 odd left....it was a crying call, but for a big pot it was all or nothing...i think the mistake came before my call on the flop...i thought this was a standard 3 bet with the idea of taking it down on the flop but wasnt to be surely the way i played the hand would be successful more often than not?? i'm not sure and thats why i'm asking for advice
Posted by waller02

I think the problem here is that u are going to commit yourself to this hand post flop regardless of the card seen. If this is the case then surely the shove pre is better?

If u dont 3-bet pre then the pot wont be so big that any c-bet u make is pot commiting - in my view you are outmanouvering yourself by the 3-bet.

If u had a big PP then I like the 3-bet as the extra 450 odd chips from the loose callers is most welcome & you are quite prepared to fully commit to the hand. If u get outflopped so be it just unlucky, but my point is : do u want to do this on what is essentially Ace high?

waller02

yeah fair points, i knew my play wasnt great, so, essentially i should flat pre and give up if i miss, or shove? is that the general view?

Wacko90

OOP, committed 25% of your stack pre and then 75% on the flop why not just shove pre? you add about 20% onto your stack if you take it down pre anyway, and with your stack people will deffo be calling with worse hands. Your raise pre make the pot 900 anyway so what other moves do you have after the flop if you miss? Shove it in pre imo  

TommyD

The 3bet pre was too big IMO.  300 would have done the same job and it would give you more wiggle room to c-bet/fold the flop if you chose to.  As played if you want to rep huge on the flop it's a shove, no point committing a portion of your stack when you're just committing yourself.