is it right to try to make your hand here??

danny101

danny101	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.42
424POKER42	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
	Your hole cards	10 Q
sortofblue	Raise		£0.08	£0.14	£1.25
Patching99	Call		£0.08	£0.22	£5.41
jasp3315	Call		£0.08	£0.30	£1.72
penningt05	Fold
danny101	Call		£0.06	£0.36	£1.36
424POKER42	Call		£0.04	£0.40	£3.92
Flop
		J 8 A
danny101	Check
424POKER42	Check
sortofblue	Check
Patching99	Check
jasp3315	Bet		£0.20	£0.60	£1.52
danny101	Call		£0.20	£0.80	£1.16
424POKER42	Fold
sortofblue	Fold
Patching99	Fold
Turn
		7
danny101	Check
jasp3315	Bet		£0.40	£1.20	£1.12
danny101	Call		£0.40	£1.60	£0.76
River
		7
danny101	Check
jasp3315	All-in		£1.12	£2.72	£0.00
danny101	Fold
jasp3315	Muck
jasp3315	Win		£1.48		£1.48
jasp3315	Return		£1.12	£0.12	£2.60

grantorino

definitely fold flop, you have nowhere near the implied odds to chase and theres also a chance you could be raised

fold turn, same thing you dont have the odds

waller02

fold pre, as played fold flop

nmipeis

fold pre to avoid spots like this.

but since u called pre and flopped a double gutter (both to the nuts) and back door 2nd nut fd, and ur getting 3:1 immediate price i cant see why people are saying this is a fold on the flop. granted it does suck that ur relative position the the flop bettor is 1st and therefore u must act upon this bet before any1 else at the table (increasing the risk of being raised) but this is not a big enough factor to make calling a losing play.

gotta fold turn tho by the time u put this .40 in theres next to no money behind to win and ur immeditae price combined with that can not allow you to make money from calling.

Dudeskin8

Snap fold pre.

grantorino

I dont think pre is a snapfold getting 5/1 with BB likely to come along

I thought you only had a gutshot, with a double gutter you can prob justify calling flop. Fold turn though

percival09

i think pre is fine

don't really like flop, i'd raise and try get it in

not profitable to chase draws with 30BB

ladd07

Fold on the flop, poor implied odds, when you play these hands you need to make sure the odds are with you, otherwise could cost you alot of money in the long run.

waller02

i also missed the fact that you had a double gutter in which case the call on the flop is ok but def give up on the turn

i would still fold pre though as there are a lot of flops that could lead to trouble, say the flop is Q high, you could easily be dominated....folding pre saves yourself from awkward decisions imo

percival09

Still confused to how he can chase a draw with 30BB?

surely raising with the intention of getting it in is the best option if he's going to play the hand with that stack? 

grantorino

He has basically no fe at 4nl shallow multiway on this board, so getting it in is meh imo. He only needs to win about 2/3 pot more when he binks turn to justify calling flop which should be possible

donkeyplop

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

Snap fold pre.
Posted by Dudeskin8

You should have this on your headstone!!

Patching99

Sit with full buy in.  Just fold pre, fold flop, fold turn.  Good fold on river

Some of your outs our probably dirty five way.

percival09

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

Sit with full buy in.  Just fold pre, fold flop, fold turn.  Good fold on river Some of your outs our probably dirty five way.
Posted by Patching99

Be nice if you actually said why, it isn't going to help him by you saying that is it lol! 

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here?? : You should have this on your headstone!!
Posted by donkeyplop

It's pretty much all I do at this level so most spots it's the answer.

Patching99

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here?? : Be nice if you actually said why, it isn't going to help him by you saying that is it lol! 
Posted by percival09

Thats a fair point I guess but not very good with explanations.

Sit with a full buy in - You want to sit with the maximum possible so when you get a good starting hand or hit a flop you can win the maximum.

Fold Pre - IMO the way to beat this level and I have done it and still win here time and time again is to have a tight starting hand selection compared to everyone else.  Everyone loves to see flops as cheap as they can with any two.  Therefore by have a tighter preflop range you will save pennies like in the above hand but when you do hit you will be more likely to be ahead.  When you think you are ahead just bet and bet, don't worry about folding out hands, if they have one they will pay you and if they dont you werent getting anything anyway so don't try and be clever.  95% are not watching what you are doing so playing tight won't mean you won't get action.

Fold Flop - Obviously we wouldn't be in this situation, but 5 handed drawing on a flushing board is not ideal.  The more people that see the flop means its more likely that at least one has a flush draw .  This means that the K clubs and 8 Clubs or whatever you needed to hit may trump your straight.  By all means bet your draws but I wouldn't recommend chasing this one.

Fold Turn - As above.

Cheers Percival, look what you made me do.

percival09

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here?? : Thats a fair point I guess but not very good with explanations. Sit with a full buy in - You want to sit with the maximum possible so when you get a good starting hand or hit a flop you can win the maximum. Fold Pre - IMO the way to beat this level and I have done it and still win here time and time again is to have a tight starting hand selection compared to everyone else.  Everyone loves to see flops as cheap as they can with any two.  Therefore by have a tighter preflop range you will save pennies like in the above hand but when you do hit you will be more likely to be ahead.  When you think you are ahead just bet and bet, don't worry about folding out hands, if they have one they will pay you and if they dont you werent getting anything anyway so don't try and be clever.  95% are not watching what you are doing so playing tight won't mean you won't get action. Fold Flop - Obviously we wouldn't be in this situation, but 5 handed drawing on a flushing board is not ideal.  The more people that see the flop means its more likely that at least one has a flush draw .  This means that the K clubs and 8 Clubs or whatever you needed to hit may trump your straight.  By all means bet your draws but I wouldn't recommend chasing this one. Fold Turn - As above. Cheers Percival, look what you made me do.

Posted by Patching99

LOL! very in-depth, nice. 

grantorino

even this shallow in SB I dont see how we can fold pre getting 5/1 against fish who will pay us off if we flop big. Also the Kc gives us the nfd and the 8c the 2nd nfd, I still think we can call flop even counting  6 outs (unless my math is fcuked up again)

AMYBR

Only read OP.  Dont mind a peel on flop, maybe to take away on turn.  But auto muck turn as played.

Patching99

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

Only read OP.  Dont mind a peel on flop, maybe to take away on turn.  But auto muck turn as played.
Posted by AMYBR

Worse advice ever IMO, do not bluff NL4!  No wonder you suck online.

AMYBR

Cant say I play nl4 tbh, peel to pick up or improve.  Was trying to be positive

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: is it right to try to make your hand here??:

even this shallow in SB I dont see how we can fold pre getting 5/1 against fish who will pay us off if we flop big. Also the Kc gives us the nfd and the 8c the 2nd nfd, I still think we can call flop even counting  6 outs (unless my math is fcuked up again)
Posted by grantorino

It's 45-1 to flop two pair, not sure on trips but it's more than 5-1, anything else is just one pair when you could be dominated and can never fully commit with TP.