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KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10

edited July 2011 in The Poker Clinic
saw this table at NL10 with average pot of £10. Sat down. watched all participants throw money around like confetti. decide to have a shot. by the time im dealt in 2 have gone busto. All players are looser than hell. However to be fair B is playing the players well. Im by the point of the hand considered tighter than an elastic band on a certain part of the male anatomy

get one decent holding in 20+ hands. I have seen both oppos call down to show down pot bets on every street with K high, complete air, 5 high.....you name it..... and they raise every hand and call any reraises pre.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
tapeworm Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.65
robv Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £3.90
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
BRaise  £0.40 £0.55 £20.52
aFold     
tapeworm Raise  £1.25 £1.80 £8.40
robv Fold     
B Call  £0.90 £2.70 £19.62
Flop
   
  • J
  • A
  • A
     
Bluergh....whaddya we doing

Comments

  • edited July 2011
    If the player in question is as you describe and you are not exaggerating whatsoever then there is nothing to suggest they have Ace here so bet for value to get called by Jack or other pocket pair
  • edited July 2011
    good good - im not exagerating - now what
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    tapeworm Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.65
    robv Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £3.90
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
         
    BRUCE1 Raise  £0.40 £0.55 £20.52
    ang10 Fold     
    tapeworm Raise  £1.25 £1.80 £8.40
    robv Fold     
    BRUCE1 Call  £0.90 £2.70 £19.62
    Flop
       
    • J
    • A
    • A
         
    tapeworm Bet  £2.03 £4.73 £6.37
    BRUCE1 Call  £2.03 £6.76 £17.59
    Turn
       
    • J
         
    ??
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    good good - im not exagerating - now what

    Nowhere near your level tapeworm but given your description of the table I think he's going to call you all the way down here - why not save time and shove?
  • edited July 2011
    Player dependant, if he doesnt have an A he's going to be afraid of you taking him to value town as much as your afraid of him.

    For me I slowdown and see what I can gleam from his bet size at turn.

    Its not an auto stack off in my opinion.  His bet size/speed will give you something.
  • edited July 2011
    either shove or check get it in, whichever you think is more likely to make him spew

    Also I make it bigger pre if he calls anyway
  • edited July 2011
    Yh £1.60 pre for me.

    Flop is pretty ugly, bet is good though.

    Turn is horrible, would shove but not happy about it.
  • edited July 2011
    Ok.....Looks like I made an error here then. I checked for pot control. Q lands on river and he makes a little £2 bet........should I have shoved, called.....folded - I DIDNT KNOW ARGHHHHHHH!!!!
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    tapeworm Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.65
    robv Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £3.90
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
         
    BRUCE1 Raise  £0.40 £0.55 £20.52
    ang10 Fold     
    tapeworm Raise  £1.25 £1.80 £8.40
    robv Fold     
    BRUCE1 Call  £0.90 £2.70 £19.62
    Flop
       
    • J
    • A
    • A
         
    tapeworm Bet  £2.03 £4.73 £6.37
    BRUCE1 Call  £2.03 £6.76 £17.59
    Turn
       
    • J
         
    tapeworm Check     
    BRUCE1 Check     
    River
       
    • Q
         
    tapeworm Check     
    BRUCE1 Bet  £2.00 £8.76 £15.59
  • edited July 2011
    lol sigh call + wave goodbye to £2 but take some notes
  • edited July 2011
    I like how u played it have to call on end and hope he has Q x

    i think you have lost but played hand well
  • edited July 2011
    im with young gun on this one.
  • edited July 2011
    I crying called and the dude shows up with J8 off.....

    Here my question really, I knew I was beat in fact i was certain - and for some reason I had a feeling it was a Jack - not a read just a hunch as to be fair he coulda had anything.

    Do we still call off these little river bets when we are certain we are behind due to the fact we could be wrong and as YG points out he may have Qx?

    I seriously contemplated folding on this river as im not beating much........would a fold of been terribad?
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    either shove or check get it in, whichever you think is more likely to make him spew Also I make it bigger pre if he calls anyway
    Posted by grantorino
     
    winner of the worst advice award
  • edited July 2011
    And a second question - am I right to take shots like this two levels above my BR limit when it is obvious players are throwing money around?

    The bloke who won this hand had just bust 3 other players playing really recklessly - the average pot when I sat dow was £10!!! - gotta have a crack right????
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    And a second question - am I right to take shots like this two levels above my BR limit when it is obvious players are throwing money around? The bloke who won this hand had just bust 3 other players playing really recklessly - the average pot when I sat dow was £10!!! - gotta have a crack right????
    Posted by tapeworm
    Depends how much you care about losing a buyin or 2. But you have to be disciplined. If you lose your max limit you have to stop. Otherwise you might bust your entire bankroll.
  • edited July 2011
    Yeah I did quite well in that respect, shortly after this hand 3 players sat down of which 2 were very good, i lost another £2 through my raises not connecting with the flop, but hitting their ranges and gave up.......back to NL4 several quid lighter.......I gave myself an A for effort and table selection though!!!
  • edited July 2011
    Q1. it really does depend but often over time your losing money if you fold in this spot with such generous odds. its a crying call as £2 to win £10.76 is over 4-1 so only 1 in 4/5? needs to be good for it to be +ev

    Q2. if you have observed and have good reads on the level above its ok to take a shot if you limit yourself how many you can lose and stay diciplined
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    Q1. it really does depend but often over time your losing money if you fold in this spot with such generous odds. its a crying call as £2 to win £10.76 is over 4-1 so only 1 in 4/5? needs to be good for it to be +ev Q2. if you have observed and have good reads on the level above its ok to take a shot if you limit yourself how many you can lose and stay diciplined
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    Do you think your going to win 1 in 5? I'm not sure. You can litterally only beat KQ or Q10 . How often are they going to have that?  are they always going to value bet them? 

    edit, oh they could have Qd xd aswell, but again, do they just check them?
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10 :   winner of the worst advice award
    Posted by 5toneFace
    lol, well yeah I agree shoving is pretty bad not sure what I was thinking, he hasnt much behind though and Im not sure I like c/f abainst a spewmonkey, I assumed a bet would put us in

     I prob sighcall river it can be spazzes sometimes. You have a point  tbf, it may be a c/f on both turn and river even getting those odds
  • edited July 2011
    Yeah shoving is terrible, can only get called by a better hand. Checking to induce a bluff is different tho. Depends on the villian.

    I'm not saying its a defo fold. But his bet size on river is very worrying. Is he good enough to value bet bluff (missed flush draws), I doubt it. Has he got the ability to value bet a queen, again i'm not so sure. So then that means he cant really have anything that we beat. So that makes me think its a fold. If you think he can bet a queen here then a call is prob fine
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10 : Do you think your going to win 1 in 5? I'm not sure. You can litterally only beat KQ or Q10 . How often are they going to have that?  are they always going to value bet them?  edit, oh they could have Qd xd aswell, but again, do they just check them?
    Posted by 5toneFace
    Id say KQd, KQ, possibly Q10 , also maybe K10 if he was on straight draw, i do agree though it looks like we are beat here but its nl10 they can show up with worse alot here imo
  • edited July 2011
    As I said, are they really gonna bet a Q for value. Cant see people capable of it to be honest. Most of them would just check and hope you check. Remember we could have an Ace or Jack and KK QQ other Queens in our range. So they wont want to go value owning themselves.

    ps, K10 beats us
  • edited July 2011
    I'd expect to see stuff like 44, missed diamonds more than qx tbh
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    I'd expect to see stuff like 44, missed diamonds more than qx tbh
    Posted by grantorino
    Yeah probably, but theyve bet less than 1/3 of pot. Can they ever be bluffin with this bet size?
  • edited July 2011

    I would think its unlikely to be a bluff, but its 4NL and we have great pot odds, toss a coin imo.

  • edited July 2011
    Fair enough, if you think we have the best hand 50% of time then its a call. I'm not sure if we ever have the best hand, but I was just asking questions. I havent played 10nl for a long time to know whether people are going to make these sorts of bluffs.
  • edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: KK, spewy table NL10......yes 10:
    As I said, are they really gonna bet a Q for value. Cant see people capable of it to be honest. Most of them would just check and hope you check. Remember we could have an Ace or Jack and KK QQ other Queens in our range. So they wont want to go value owning themselves. ps, K10 beats us
    Posted by 5toneFace
    PS- i know mistype meant straight :)
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