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Negranue on day 3 Hand banter ruling
I finally got round to watching some of the 2011 ME live coverage this morning.
On day 3 Negranue is in a hand, at river (OOP HU after being bet into) he comments "I had a lot of outs, how many outs is that....? 14 I think, any D, any A or K." He's talking to himself and being generally friendly and amiable as he tends to be.
But because of this he receives a warning about discussing his hand. It now seems that a player is not even permmited to discuss their own holdings, even on the basis of simply verbalising one's own thinking process.
This has always been the case when multi way as it should be. Also being the case that you cant say what you are truthfully holding, the old adage of its within the rules to lie about your hand, but not speak truthfully.
Negranue is about as annoyed about this as you'll ever see him at table (other than when continually flopping the nuts and getting done for $200k pots by the river HSP), which isnt very. But he doesnt really let it go either, making comments such as "What are you doing, just trying to make poker as boring as possible then?". I have to agree with him. Negranue and company have spearheaded a voice to change certain WSOP rules and codes of conduct, as they have voiced that many of the pschological tools that have always been employed in poker have been outed. In a HU pot players really ought to be able to bring all their skills into play, is the thinking (which again I agree with).
Look at Jamie Gold in the 06 ME. He was encouraged by the wsop directors (so he says and is commonly accepted) to do what he did - being everything your not supposed to -, disclosing hand strength, showing 1 card in hand, stating players perceived action behind when multiway etc. Not receiving even the slightest punitive measure.
But now people get a warning when externalising thinking last to act when HU? I'd likely get 10 warnings an orbit....
Why is the pschological aspect being pushed out of the game? its an integral part of the game. Equally as important as others. Sure a player can choose to be completely stoic, or they can be politely verbal and try and gather some information this way also. In honesty, other than his success, its what Negranue is famous (and hugely liked) because of.
Part of the draw of poker is playing against the multiple player types and personalities we come across, the banter and the challenge. Yes, its never nice to come across a complete tool at table, but this kind of blanket ban on verbal probes and tells is getting kind of out of hand. Watch this space, I would lay a bet that Negranue will be taking this issue up seriously at a later date.
Thoughts guys???
On day 3 Negranue is in a hand, at river (OOP HU after being bet into) he comments "I had a lot of outs, how many outs is that....? 14 I think, any D, any A or K." He's talking to himself and being generally friendly and amiable as he tends to be.
But because of this he receives a warning about discussing his hand. It now seems that a player is not even permmited to discuss their own holdings, even on the basis of simply verbalising one's own thinking process.
This has always been the case when multi way as it should be. Also being the case that you cant say what you are truthfully holding, the old adage of its within the rules to lie about your hand, but not speak truthfully.
Negranue is about as annoyed about this as you'll ever see him at table (other than when continually flopping the nuts and getting done for $200k pots by the river HSP), which isnt very. But he doesnt really let it go either, making comments such as "What are you doing, just trying to make poker as boring as possible then?". I have to agree with him. Negranue and company have spearheaded a voice to change certain WSOP rules and codes of conduct, as they have voiced that many of the pschological tools that have always been employed in poker have been outed. In a HU pot players really ought to be able to bring all their skills into play, is the thinking (which again I agree with).
Look at Jamie Gold in the 06 ME. He was encouraged by the wsop directors (so he says and is commonly accepted) to do what he did - being everything your not supposed to -, disclosing hand strength, showing 1 card in hand, stating players perceived action behind when multiway etc. Not receiving even the slightest punitive measure.
But now people get a warning when externalising thinking last to act when HU? I'd likely get 10 warnings an orbit....
Why is the pschological aspect being pushed out of the game? its an integral part of the game. Equally as important as others. Sure a player can choose to be completely stoic, or they can be politely verbal and try and gather some information this way also. In honesty, other than his success, its what Negranue is famous (and hugely liked) because of.
Part of the draw of poker is playing against the multiple player types and personalities we come across, the banter and the challenge. Yes, its never nice to come across a complete tool at table, but this kind of blanket ban on verbal probes and tells is getting kind of out of hand. Watch this space, I would lay a bet that Negranue will be taking this issue up seriously at a later date.
Thoughts guys???
Comments
I'll be sure to catch the repeat then
Could you imagine if Sky's UK cash game running at the moment was played in the same way? I'd be turning off after half an hour.
I think the rule will probably be amended for next years Main back to the way it was. Talking about hands and opponents is and always has been part of the game and is something that shouldn't be took out (as long as it doesn't go over the top ofc which I do detest).
Also, if he says I had any d, any A any K as outs thats pretty close to telling him his hand( surely it did??), but agree with your point in general