MTT - Hero Call?

DOHHHHHHH

Notes C n P'd of Villain....

Cash
opens A9s utg, raise/gets in big combo draws, COOLER

THIS MTT
Dfest 4 handed, dfnded v P7 54s, min donk led str8 draw
Spazd off TJs to peng 3b NO FE

Thought I'd call the flop in position as alot of his hands have missed.

Should I have bluffed with 3's on the turn? Thought I'd check behind and call most bets OTR unless a Q/K/A came.

On the end I narrowed his hands down to either AK/AQ, which is the same thing, or pocket tens.

His bet sizing makes me want to call so much on the end.

What are your thoughts?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Bandit1949	Small blind		50.00	50.00	6970.00
penguin7	Big blind		100.00	150.00	4458.00
	Your hole cards	3 3
xxx	Raise		275.00	425.00	6025.00
DOHHHHHHH	Call		275.00	700.00	5182.00
llandody	Fold
charlaton	Fold
Bandit1949	Fold
penguin7	Fold
Flop
		7 2 8
xxx	Bet		500.00	1200.00	5525.00
DOHHHHHHH	Call		500.00	1700.00	4682.00
Turn
		10
xxx	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Check
River
		4
xxx	Bet		1500.00	3200.00	4025.00
DOHHHHHHH

YOUNG_GUN

i dont like flatting flop if your going to get him of the hand re-raise flop IMO he can have overs here but would be difficult to call. Not played terrible tbf but i'd re-raise flop and give up or possibly barrell turn

PiAnOpLaYa

3k still a very playable stack -30bb

so yes i'd go for it - looks like to broadway cards, surely he's be looking to get to a cheap showdown with anything other then top pair?

Batkin88

When your calling that flop and he checks turn you should be betting back at him really especially in a MTT, players c-bet flop the shut up shop in most cases if on air. Bet back into him just over half the pot then if he calls he is more likely to check the river giving you the chance to shove and take pot or to check behind if you feel you have showdown value.
But in this case i would have him on a K8 A8 or maybe 66 55 as he has bet flop checked to overcard and come back in on river on the low card, so no i wouldn't make call here

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

When your calling that flop and he checks turn you should be betting back at him really especially in a MTT, players c-bet flop the shut up shop in most cases if on air. Bet back into him just over half the pot then if he calls he is more likely to check the river giving you the chance to shove and take pot or to check behind if you feel you have showdown value. But in this case i would have him on a K8 A8 or maybe 66 55 as he has bet flop checked to overcard and come back in on river on the low card, so no i wouldn't make call here
Posted by Batkin88

I agree my mistake was the turn....

maybe.....

If I bet turn I get value sometimes when he can't fold AK, and also get him to check most rivers.

So I cudda bet 800 on turn and checked behind river. Will prob try that in future.

yb

yeah in the OP you say should you bluff on the turn, but that doesn't make much sense because he's pretty much never folding anything that beats you. if you think he doesn't check the turn with a pair or better that often at all you can bet smallish (less than 1/2 pot imo) for protection/value.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

yeah in the OP you say should you bluff on the turn, but that doesn't make much sense because he's pretty much never folding anything that beats you. if you think he doesn't check the turn with a pair or better that often at all you can bet smallish (less than 1/2 pot imo) for protection/value.
Posted by yb

And the river as played........?

Mohican

Set mining is fine with me. But once you call the flop and he checks the turn, you have to fire a bet in,1/2 to 3/4 pot. It's a classic float play. By checking the turn you advertise your weakness and he bets the river to put you on the spot. The way the hand has played out, I'd be firing on that river with AK etc to try to nick the pot so a hero call's probably good if you put him on Ax etc.He'd have bet the turn if he was stronger.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

Set mining is fine with me. But once you call the flop and he checks the turn, you have to fire a bet in,1/2 to 3/4 pot. It's a classic float play. By checking the turn you advertise your weakness and he bets the river to put you on the spot. The way the hand has played out, I'd be firing on that river with AK etc to try to nick the pot so a hero call's probably good if you put him on Ax etc.He'd have bet the turn if he was stronger.
Posted by Mohican

This was my initial thought.

CLIOKID

I'd call river.

Checking behind turn is fine.

You are either miles ahead or miles behind, more chance of inducing a bluff than getting a value bet paid off here IMO.

grantorino

I would be inclined to fold flop. You dont know how often he barrells, your notes said he minbet a draw and this bet is strong

turn, you can bet if you want, all it really does though is protect your equity in pot. I think checking is fine too

river, meh I want to call but his sizing worries me I prob fold. I dont mind a call though, but I think he can have stuff like  J9s, 44, some other stuff beats you as well as hands you say

yb

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : And the river as played........?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

probably call, i'd fold flop though fwiw

percival09

raising flop would be bad as you're turning your hand into a bluff, calling would be ok ish but you'll never know where you are in the hand unless villain checks the turn .. which he does, i think check back is fine, only going to get called by a worse hand betting, i know betting is protecting your hand but what against? 2 overs? that'd be spewy imo , judging by your twitter (LOL) i take it you call and lose? i don't think it's the worst call in the world but it's a strong bet, it looks like villain has checked turn to try and trap you and deffo has you beat ... imo anyway

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

raising flop would be bad as you're turning your hand into a bluff, calling would be ok ish but you'll never know where you are in the hand unless villain checks the turn .. which he does, i think check back is fine, only going to get called by a worse hand betting, i know betting is protecting your hand but what against? 2 overs? that'd be spewy imo , judging by your twitter (LOL) i take it you call and lose? i don't think it's the worst call in the world but it's a strong bet, it looks like villain has checked turn to try and trap you and deffo has you beat ... imo anywayPosted by percival09

Ha! Whats ur name on twit twop twa tter??

Yeh ur right, I made the call and got 2 aces shoved in mi eye! 

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : probably call, i'd fold flop though fwiw
Posted by yb

Why would you fold the flop? Is it just coz of his sizing? Or is this standard against randoms for u?

You obv know most of his raising hands has missed? You just don't wanna get involved?

DeuceAK_47

Fold preflop -only 50 BB deep and utg1 with a junk hand imo.

yb

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : Why would you fold the flop? Is it just coz of his sizing? Or is this standard against randoms for u? You obv know most of his raising hands has missed? You just don't wanna get involved?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

not really his sizing, its just that from your reads he seems fairly aggro/spewy so we could easily be facing multiple barrels and there are tonnes of turn/river cards which we don't like. also its really hard for us to improve, if we had something like 76s i'd be much more inclined to call because we have much better equity if we're behind.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:
[QUOTE]Fold preflop -only 50 BB deep and utg1 with a junk hand imo.
Posted by DeuceAK-47

Deuce!!! U back on sky? U best still be in team DOHHHHHH in the next comp....

Would anyone else fold here??????? Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I know the set mining odds or whatever r wack, but u double up when u hit a set more often than not!

grantorino

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : [QUOTE ]Fold preflop -only 50 BB deep and utg1 with a junk hand imo. Posted by DeuceAK-47

Deuce!!! U back on sky? U best still be in team DOHHHHHH in the next comp.... Would anyone else fold here??????? Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I know the set mining odds or whatever r wack, but u double up when u hit a set more often than not!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

How do you make this out ,when in another post you reckon he misses entirely enough for you to call river with a pair of threes. You can maybe call pre, but you cant have it both ways.

I probably call pre, but I think its pretty marginal if we are purely setmining, also you can get squeezed behind

Mohican

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : [QUOTE ]Fold preflop -only 50 BB deep and utg1 with a junk hand imo. Posted by DeuceAK-47

Deuce!!! U back on sky? U best still be in team DOHHHHHH in the next comp.... Would anyone else fold here??????? Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I know the set mining odds or whatever r wack, but u double up when u hit a set more often than not!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I'd be looking to set mine here. 3 3 is easy to play on the flop cos if you miss you can fold ,simples.It's early in the tourney and you're gonna get paid cos putting someone on a low set is hard.
 Folding on the flop to a cbet is fine because the only card you'll like on the turn is a 3.The only reason to call the cbet with this hand is position(floating the flop), with the intention of firing a bet if the turn is checked to you.
 So up to the point where he checks to you on the turn, everything is fine for me. Then 850/900 would've gone in the pot. If he's just cbet with no hand he folds,luvverly jubbley.If he calls and checks the river then you can check it back cos you have showdown with a made hand. If he check raises the turn, just fold and make notes.

DeuceAK_47

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : [QUOTE ]Fold preflop -only 50 BB deep and utg1 with a junk hand imo. Posted by DeuceAK-47

Deuce!!! U back on sky? U best still be in team DOHHHHHH in the next comp.... Would anyone else fold here??????? Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I know the set mining odds or whatever r wack, but u double up when u hit a set more often than not!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Yeah im back on Sky at the mo, although only deposited £400 so have to grind the micros again lol, was playing on Tilt most of the time and stil got 1k stuck on there, luckily i took most of my BR off but am confused where to play next so thought i would give Sky a go :-)

Know one can beat the old team DOHHHHHHH, didnt we get 5players to a FT out of 1000 players ;-)

As for the hand

Preflop- definely think its a fold as if hes opening with A9s and wider then your not always going to double up if you hit all the time, plus if i was on your table i would be squeezing you lol.

Flop- I would probably call, i hate raising as we have not got much outs if called (A2 would be better for raising the flop)

Turn- bet to capatilise on dead money/value/protection.

River- you only need to be right around 30% so its close...i would go with my gut at the time :-)

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : Deuce!!! U back on sky? U best still be in team DOHHHHHH in the next comp.... Would anyone else fold here??????? Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I know the set mining odds or whatever r wack, but u double up when u hit a set more often than not! Posted by DOHHHHHHH

How do you make this out ,when in another post you reckon he misses entirely enough for you to call river with a pair of threes. You can maybe call pre, but you cant have it both ways. I probably call pre, but   I think its pretty marginal if we are purely setmining, also you can get squeezed behind
Posted by grantorino

Coz they don't fold.

They will bluff with the betting lead and call all the time, but wont fold.

If you flop a set on sky and ur oppo isnt a good reg, u double ur money most of the time

baggs

Wow. you better read some more of your textbooks. Unable to let go of pocket 3s. Check behind on the turn and call river. lol

pryce6

As long as you called the river you played it well.

Calling flop is fine. I don't like betting turn because he just folds all hands we beat. By checking turn we can get value from river bluffs on safe cards.

offshoot

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

raising flop would be bad as you're turning your hand into a bluff, calling would be ok ish but you'll never know where you are in the hand unless villain checks the turn .. which he does, i think check back is fine, only going to get called by a worse hand betting, i know betting is protecting your hand but what against? 2 overs? that'd be spewy imo , judging by your twitter (LOL) i take it you call and lose? i don't think it's the worst call in the world but it's a strong bet, it looks like villain has checked turn to try and trap you and deffo has you beat ... imo anyway
Posted by percival09

dont see how this is a particularly bad thing in this spot. fold />>raise>>call

offshoot

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

As long as you called the river you played it well. Calling flop is fine. I don't like betting turn because he just folds all hands we beat. By checking turn we can get value from river bluffs on safe cards.
Posted by pryce6

How many safe cards are there really? Most cards just make our decision tougher when he bets. If we bet turn we can get value from draws and then get to check river.

pryce6

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : How many safe cards are there really? Most cards just make our decision tougher when he bets. If we bet turn we can get value from draws and then get to check river.
Posted by offshoot

any card that pairs the board, any card lower than a 9.

He bets turn with 99, so really we are getting value from A9 if we bet? We can just snap most rivers this way.

andybeth

I was the viallain in this hand. Do remember the hand. Was a really interesting hand. I tried to give u a tough decision on the river, and play the hand out of the ordinary to try and induce a call. If the roles were reversed, I probablt would lean towards a fold, leaving u plenty behind.  I'm not a reg MTT player at all, and would definately play the hand differently on a cash table.

Regarding the j10 spewy 4 bet jam vs penguin, I'd had enough and was happy to get out of the tournie, ha! Not a standard play by me!

percival09

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call?:

In Response to Re: MTT - Hero Call? : dont see how this is a particularly bad thing in this spot. fold /> />raise>>call
Posted by offshoot

I suppose if you actually have intentions to turn your hand into a bluff it's fine, but when i originally posted it i was referring to somebody else's post who said hero should raise to find out where they are, which is why i posted that, because i think raising most of the time should either be for value/protection or a bluff, and heros holdings arent strong enough to raise for value obv