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Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader

rancidrancid
edited July 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Played perfect imo, just unlucky he woke up with that.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    I am chip leader top 5 overall, might have been 1st or 2nd.  - blinds 1250/2500 - last 15 or something
    Coatsing along nicely when this hand comes along
    Been bugging me, hindsight is a great thing and going back I want to fold but surely I can't ?
    I feel it's pretty standard but need some cuddles or punches in my arm )
    Nearest stack near me is half my stack
    Guy goes all in and I just know he is weak so I shove !
    Raising is pointless so I feel all is good, only four hands can call me right AA/KK/QQ/AK
    Is this correct thinking given situation, or do i just fold em like it's 26o as I don't have to get invovled
    By the way this happens a lot to me ) So any help would be good

    Also do you think AK can fold there ? I don't blame him for calling but hey ho should he call ?

    jdan24 Small blind   1250.00 1250.00 34557.25
    X
    		 Big blind   2500.00 3750.00 47187.50
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
    		     
    Y All-in   22490.00 26240.00 0.00
    rancid All-in   121515.00 147755.00 0.00
    jdan24 Fold        
    X
    		 All-in   47187.50 194942.50 0.00
    rancid Unmatched bet   71827.50 123115.00 71827.50
    X Show
    • A
    • K
    		     
    Y Show
    • Q
    • J
    		     
    rancid Show
    • A
    • Q
    		     
    Flop
       
    • 5
    • 5
    • 4
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 6
    		     
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    x Win Pair of 5s 123115.00   123115.00
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited July 2011
    With your stack i can let this go but then again im a wimp and i hate A Q ;))
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  • iBLUFFiBLUFF
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    With your stack i can let this go but then again im a wimp and i hate A Q ;))
    Posted by debdobs_67
    I completely disagree, i dont fold AQ to less than a 10bb shove.
     ;)
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    Standard, next hand please.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : I completely disagree, i dont fold AQ to less than a 10bb shove.  ;)
    Posted by iBLUFF
    Neither would i IF i was the LAST one to act but with a huge stack still to come ive found foldin is better ;)
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited July 2011
    fistpump shove, nh
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    fistpump shove, nh
    Posted by grantorino
    fistpump for me and x ? ) Or do you think it's a hard call for him
    shove - re shove - holding AK - easy call right ? think he had 18 BB's - last 15 - easy call ?


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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited July 2011
    Its not a fistpump for the other guy, Im not sure what he should do, I would call though unless you are really nitty or he feels he can steal very easily.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    Its not a fistpump for the other guy, Im not sure what he should do, I would call though unless you are really nitty or he feels he can steal very easily.
    Posted by grantorino
    I was all in to isolate the UTG shove, so no steals :s He had to call off his whole stack of 18 BB's behind me.
    And yeah I am a nit, hear that - a nit - I always have it ! So he should of folded :)
    I hate AQ so the more replies I get saying it's the correct move given the sitaution then I am ok with it - I think :)
    These kinda hands can alter the course of the MTT for you, so looking back it's horrible for me.
    I had 48 BB's at the start of the hand, seriously can I fold.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    You finish hand with 29 bigs, whats the problemo ?
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    You finish hand with 29 bigs, whats the problemo ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    I want the world ) 29 bigs is no problem but 48 bigs is like wonderland )
    I don't like giving up wonderland to go fight in the streets

    My point being I could have so easily just passed this as I do not need to get involved unless I got AA/KK :)
    I am thinking over this situation from the point of view - i actually do not have to play every playable hand -
    If I was playing live I'll be outside having a cig and a drink thinking how life is so great with 48 bigs

    So I think I can fold pre here with 48 bigs, and just use my stack to bully the table
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    Having 48 bigs/big stack allows you to make these plays as you can survive hits. :)
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    Having 48 bigs/big stack allows you to make these plays as you can survive hits. :)
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    very true, but this happens to me a lot and even though my standard thinking is I am doing the
    same thing time and time again then maybe I could pass these spots and imagine I am at the bar )
    Might sound daft but I am giving it some serious thought.

    I was watching some big TV pokerstars final table thingy and this german guy binkerman or something is kinda short 21 bb or something. Guy raises from early and he folds or 3 bet folds AK - that was weird and tight but it got me thinking you can fold if you want. The guy who won it,  well he done some terribly angle shoot  - Fretz or something  his name was - he said raise and put only enough chips in for a call -- haha o yeah binkerman came 2nd so ................... folding can be good

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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited July 2011
    results based thinking ftw
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    results based thinking ftw
    Posted by grantorino
    yeah yeah I know - sometimes you gotta turn the rule book upside down to understand it from another angle

    yadayada i know - but really would folding be so bad ?

    It would be nit - but hey being a nit is not that bad is it ?

    If I was sitting there with 20 BB then hey it goes in but with 48 - I can nit up can't I or is everyone going to
    hit me :)
    I bet Greghogg agrees with me === ?



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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    From a few times seen on NL4 you are not a nit my friend at least not a nit on my level.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : yeah yeah I know - sometimes you gotta turn the rule book upside down to understand it from another angle yadayada i know - but really would folding be so bad ? It would be nit - but hey being a nit is not that bad is it ? If I was sitting there with 20 BB then hey it goes in but with 48 - I can nit up can't I or is everyone going to hit me :) I bet Greghogg agrees with me === ?
    Posted by rancid
    LOOK back at my 1st post and i say fold , why?? cos in 2 yrs of playin over 1400 mtts i have learned to fold HERE xxx
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : LOOK back at my 1st post and i say fold , why?? cos in 2 yrs of playin over 1400 mtts i have learned to fold HERE xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    yeah maybe you are right in this kinda situation - big chip leader - and all that - it's ok to fold
    But these situations are very rare tbh, plus the table dynamic and postion etc... MAYBE YOU CAN FOLD
    nearly all the time it's always a shove - you may even fold out AK sometimes )

    Same situation again then I will probably do the samd thing so hey ho ) Or just maybe I will be making a cup of tea )




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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : yeah maybe you are right in this kinda situation - big chip leader - and all that - it's ok to fold But these situations are very rare tbh, plus the table dynamic and postion etc... MAYBE YOU CAN FOLD nearly all the time it's always a shove - you may even fold out AK sometimes ) Same situation again then I will probably do the samd thing so hey ho ) Or just maybe I will be making a cup of tea )
    Posted by rancid
    2 Sugars for me xxx
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  • ybyb
    edited July 2011
    should be fist pump shoves for both you and the BB tbh.

    if you think he has a hard decision to make then you're probably playing too tight.
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  • jakallyjakally
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : LOOK back at my 1st post and i say fold , why?? cos in 2 yrs of playin over 1400 mtts i have learned to fold HERE xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67

    I think the shove is fine.

    I don't mean to be controversial, but......
    I'm guessing you are probably a winning player debs.
    Say your ROI is 10% profit (I don't know what it is, just a for instance).
    Say the best players have an ROI of 100%+.

    It maybe that making  these kind of plays are one of the differences between your game, and a that of a v.good player.
    It may not be, but  I think it's too easy to say 'that's the way I've always played so it must be the best way'.

    I don't mean this personally, just an observation on the post that you made.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    With a shove and reshove his range must be isolated to just QQ+ maybe even folds QQ depending how tight he is, and some players might fold AK so basically your hardly EVER being called. When you are called say well done on waking up with a hand and move on.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    With a shove and reshove his range must be isolated to just QQ+ maybe even folds QQ depending how tight he is, and some players might fold AK so basically your hardly EVER being called. When you are called say well done on waking up with a hand and move on.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Exactly that was my thinking - weak open - only going to be called by four hands max so - all in
    Snap shoved - didn't even think about folding, more of an after event looking back and analyising this big hand
    End of the day if I win that hand - I am dominating the whole field sitting with 80 bigs and loving life - If I lose I have 48 bigs and still ok  - it's such an easy shove

    I didn't get the stack in the first place by folding so.....

    Folding in this spot can get you into bad habits and you will be passing way too many winnable hands
    Cheers, thanks and goodbye I feel ok about my shove now )


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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    Could only even contimplate folding if I was playing MTT's with like 5 BI's or something stupid where I just want to cash, but tbh even if I had just 5 BI's I'd still shove as winning MTT's is the ONLY thing you should aim for when playing them.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    Could only even contimplate folding if I was playing MTT's with like 5 BI's or something stupid where I just want to cash, but tbh even if I had just 5 BI's I'd still shove as winning MTT's is the ONLY thing you should aim for when playing them.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    I don't agree with you there as you can't even think about winning until you reach the FT.
    Think the main aim when playing MTT's is keeping up or doing better than average chip stack.
    If your double the average then hey ho wohooooo, but you still can't think about winning it. A couple of hands and you can easily be out so ...... but I kinda understand what your saying as some spots you should not pass and if you do you will never even come close to a FT




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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : I think the shove is fine. I don't mean to be controversial, but...... I'm guessing you are probably a winning player debs. Say your ROI is 10% profit (I don't know what it is, just a for instance). Say the best players have an ROI of 100%+. It maybe that making  these kind of plays are one of the differences between your game, and a that of a v.good player. It may not be, but  I think it's too easy to say 'that's the way I've always played so it must be the best way'. I don't mean this personally, just an observation on the post that you made.
    Posted by jakally
    You are more than prob 100% correct its just that i really really hate A Q its got me in more trouble over time when in this kind of position than any other hand i can think of , and as you say by bein over cautious with this type of hand may well be the difference between final tabling and actually winning , good post anyway jakally xx
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader:
    In Response to Re: Is this a standard isolate - mini Primo Chip leader : I don't agree with you there as you can't even think about winning until you reach the FT. Think the main aim when playing MTT's is keeping up or doing better than average chip stack. If your double the average then hey ho wohooooo, but you still can't think about winning it. A couple of hands and you can easily be out so ...... but I kinda understand what your saying as some spots you should not pass and if you do you will never even come close to a FT
    Posted by rancid
    Well the first thing I look at when registering is the top prize and how many BI's this equates to, if it's less than 20 I see no point in even playing, coming sort of 5th down to however low it pays is better than nothing but longterm top 3 is all that matters to stay alive playing them.

    Obviously keeping close to average is good but I think it's more about keeping at minimum between 10-15 bb's and not getting below this for too long but always looking for that spot to take the game by the horns and get a daddy stack which this hand is an example of. ;)
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