Never started a discussion before but having read a lot on here i am going to try and give as much info as possible try and insure i get a more informed response, from what i see this is a forum that is supportive and informative so hope to get a mixed response. Please ask should you need any further information relevant to the situation to be able to throw your shillings worth in the mix.
I play a bit live and really enjoy the banter, laughter and drama. Been in much nastier situations and have seen scuffles in card rooms(not very often) but last night i got involved in what i would call a generic situation that probably happens in most cash games every night if you put a certain type of person in the game, All money and no class plyer type.
Playing live cash game in a casino in the midlands in the wee hours of the morning, £1/£2 PL holdem.(Min £25 sit down). Lots of 'small ball poker opportunities' to be had as there was a lot of limping. At the table mixture of newbies, 'regulars' and 'deep pocketed players'. Stacks ranging from around £50 to £500. This limping lark is ideal for busting the believed to be inpenetrable hands like Aces ect...
Anyhowzen, a few hands prior to the reason i am writing this discussion, i won a pot for just over £280 when i flopped a 7 high striaght versus a player pushing all his stack in with a flopped two pair. Now i was up there with the big stacks hoping to find another similair opportunity do get involved in a big hand with a big stack.
A 'gentleman' at the table was talking a lot of trash about money and how he had this that and the other and if all was to be believed he had deep pockets and this money was nothing to him. He had been a relntless raiser and had also been caught bluffing. The hand that started the abuse, went like this.......
UTG called, came round to one before the cut off got another caller, then me in the cut off holding 45sSpades, i make th call, Button calls, sb calls and the abuser on the BB put in a £5 raise(standard pot building i thought) everyone calls accept the one before cut off. So around a £37 pot.
Flop is 2 6 7 of spades, a flush for me sitting on the cut off, hoping that someone may try to steal or asking mself how big a raise can i call. SB throws in £10(strange) then BB looks down announces 'Pot' so he calls the £10 and adds the additional £57 making the pot now £114. I am now a bit worried about a bigger flush possibility or Aces with the Spade Ace in his hand. UTG folds i deliberate and i honestly consider folding, i am way to tight in this situation and delberate a while i think i have to raise or fold(how i know some are thinking).
BB pokes up 'and starts going i know your hands big but you cant beat mine just fold stop taking your time' SNAP, i raise the pot. put him on big pair Aces or Kings with the spade cause he obviously did not want me in the hand. Button folds, SB folds and BB chucks over Aces with no spades and and then begins the rant. I show the flush(pretty obvious to all), mixed reactions.
BB the abuser says i should not be in the game and that i am a 'muppet',then goes onto let me know i am not richer than he is and i am an idiot for raising and that i have played so badly all night ect... ect... interesting stuff, i made no reaction just said okay lets move on, none of the table got involved accept someone to tell me they though i should of moved in straight away with my hand. He finished with my personal favourite 'lets play heads up NL everything you got i match it'. DECLINED.
I had been out on the booze with my mates so i was was a little worse for wear nowher near my 'average level' best.
I am not arrogant or abusive at the table and can accept losing my stack for stupid mistakes, made plenty, also if someone outdraws by a miracle i can accept thats a reality of poker. Also i dont know this guy so some of the more personal comments i took with a pinch of salt, trust me i am not sensitive in the slightest. This abuse lasted all night, it did not help i did not get another hand after this and started to miss flops and weak starting hands, the guy used this to his advantage as he tried to keep saying i was sitting there with more money than i deserved and i should be playing pots so he can take 'his' money back.
I know he plays big on the roulette so casino/card room managers i going to favour him over me.
I dealt with the situation by just basically ignoring him and eventually left as i was no longer playing optimal poker, add to that the sour atmosphere i headed home in the end up for around £300.
How would you react or what experiences have all of you had? How do you handle 'Live poker abuse'? Should i have taken up the HU NL offer?
All thoughts welcome even..........and abuse.
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Comments
I think that's all you can do sometimes with these bad losers - have a mate nearby, cash in your chips and walk away.
I've often found that those who get aggro like this are semi-pro poker players. They think they have a right to win; they think their superior skill means they should win; and, goddammit, they would win if only these idiots knew how to play!
People who act like this have got no class.
You did the right thing by not rising to his bait Brad.
Players like him are class A muppets, just best to take their chips with a smile and leave, well done.
The one thing i will say is Poker and Drink in casino's dont sit well together. glk
Thanks for the replies peoples.
The casino i play in is self dealt on Saturdays so no real card room manager presence.
JingleMa - Cannot agree more, i have to ask myself afterwards this man had been talking how well off he was ect.... yet he lost around £60+ on that hand why all the fuss. Fair dues for him folding the Aces he knew he was beat but to behave like a baby afterwards well..... not going on my xmas card list anymore.
Bigbluster - Its funny you say that about being a 'big guy' cause i am pretty sure if i was 6 inches taller in that situation he would of stayed stum. Tried to take advantage but the only thing he really did was embarass himself.
Benny -Your blogs have been superb, i love Poker stories, some have yours have been vintage, would love to have a poker journey like your good self. Going to try Luton Sats for the SPT as i hear very good things.
Cheers again all
Kieran
It was two tables based on the amount that showed up and i was on the smaller of these tables. The "Muppet" in question went down rapidly to 1000 chips before the blinds had gone up even once, me and another play taking the vast majority. The other player started to struggle and i also started to get poor hands with the player to my left starting to dominate the table.
Blinds go up at this point just going up to 100/200 and my BB was next, i had 6,7 off suit in my hand, no raise so i check as you would and see the flop. Flop comes 6,9,6 So i have now improved my hand dramatically. SB had already folded and i was first to act, so i decided to check and the second player is position raised to 200, i had already decided i was going to "check - re-raise" in the hope that an opponent had a 9. So this had played perfectly to my plan. Now the "Muppets" turn, he goes all in. everyone up till me folds, as you would expect i call. As far as i could see only 6,9 or 6 with a better kicker is beating me, which i would have thought would have folded pre-flop. The origional raiser called, which baffled me, we cant all be sitting with sixes surley.
Me and the other player left in the hand just checked it down in the hope to take the guy out, which we both felt was the best option, i was tempted to go all-in with my decreasing hand to take down a side pot, but felt a safer option was to just takle the "muppet". So he shows a 6 and i show mine, He had the better kicker so as a result he wins. i thought harsh since it was a reasonalble chunk of my stack at the time, (around 25% of it) but fair enough and i congradulate him. He then bites, why did you call, you had nothing. I just put my head down and carried on.
Later on i was sitting next to BB (probably once round the table later) blinds where still the same, i had 4,4 so as always with a small pair i raise pre-flop, double min raise. had one caller off the origional raiser from the last hand mentioned, fair enough, although id rather have taken the blinds, the muppet goes all in. Automatically with a small pair i fold. His stack was now bigger than mine due to me having no hands and him hitting a few decent ones and i couldnt risk walking into a bigger pair or over cards with two opponents both with larger stacks. He hits another dig about why i raise and then fold. It was a good fold he had JQ and hit the flop Q,Q,J with the turn bringing another Q.
Once again i put my head down and carried on. My stack got smaller having nothing to play with for a considerable amount of time (around an hour) until blinds where 400/800 my stack was 600 as the blind hit me. So i was all in with 6,8 off suit. We where in the last 5 of the satallite at this point. He raises "all in" to scare all other opponents so he had the joy of taking me out, however two people had already called meaning i could quadruple up. Once again he had J,Q. I paniced and stood up ready to shake the "muppets" hand in a mark of good sportsmanship, flop comes 5,7,9 all diamonds, id flopped a straight my 6 was also a diamond and he had no diamond so a potential flush. turn was a Q and the river came 8 of diamonds, straight flush and i was back in the mix. I held on with a small stack till the final 3 when the other two, who i had been playing with all night and both mentioned in the origional hand started to pick on the small stack, fair enough id do the same situation reversed.
Then came my hand, with 4 BB left at 400/800 and blind up next hand i hit A,10 suited hearts and decided now or never and once again make the "all in" call. the muppet is the one who calls, and as always when i was in raised "all in" but the other player had called mine but again didnt want to risk against a bigger stack before heads up. I showed my A,10 suited. He shows Q,2 suited spades. Flop comes, 4,3,2 A 5 gives me a straight, Ace gives me a better pair, and two of the cards where hearts, a massive amount of outs at this point, turn was Q of Diamonds, and the river was 10 of spades. The "muppet" whose hand i shook out of sportsman ship eventually came second and why i should never go all in with A,10 suited.
At this point i was getting wound up, it was the best hand id had in over an hour, and i had less than 4 BB left. It was a move that i had to make. I just wish the other guy had put me out, however i can reluctantly accept that i came third to a muppet who thinks hes the greatest poker player on the planet. If the situation had been reversed and it was me calling the A,10 suited i would have at least said well done for holding on and doing aswell and that id like to play with the person again.
I think this will happen anywhere anytime, just hope you can avoid the muppets on your table, and take them out early if you can. Thats my logic anyway.
Rediculous games there. Played once. Never again. 10 seater table, first hand 5 all ins preflop!! A friend of mine was seated at a different table and said his table was exactly the same. (sad thing though was we were playing pot limit and nobody seemed to care)
This carried on thoughout the first hour with rebuy after rebuy after rebuy. Personally, thats not poker. Thats bingo. Now I will never play live unless you are allowed only 1 rebuy for half the value of your original buy in.
Funny though, all those mad bots in Walsall don't want to join me in a game of that structure.
Benny's advice is spot on here.
Only losers behave like your man did. He had Aces, he wanted a call. He lost. He needs to get over it, & learn to lose.
His Speeech Play was truly awful - he effectively turned his hand face up.
It's common Online, in Chat-Boxes, but quite rare in Live Games. He made a fool of himself, end of.
Hope it does not put you off Live Poker.
Hale i have had that experience at Walsall(the all in all in all in ALL IN technique), but also many other rebuy venues same issue. But honestly Walsall is my favourite venue freezeouts are great and get good numbers. £4k GTD Monday £15 rebuy good value (if you can last the 90 minute rebuys.)
You should give it another try a lot of Deep Stack tourneys on there new programme that allow for some real poker' oppose to shove and hope.
Tikay - I love the live scene, cant see one unpleasant character putting me off.
PS This is a belated thank you Tikay, but earlier this year i won an open and you ficticiously knighted me on air 'Sir Bradnock' after i came from table short stack to winner took home +£2k, and got to show my missus and parents i was famous.......for a minute........at least around the family and friends anyway. Cheers.