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JJ facing min 3bet pre.

Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
edited August 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Seen them open limp J4 and AJ so far also only play 1 table.
STEVOSTEG Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £3.94
Sinner60 Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £3.47
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
     
tiggi Call   £0.04 £0.10 £5.43
Dudeskin8 Raise   £0.24 £0.34 £3.88
MG42 Fold        
x Raise   £0.44 £0.78 £3.58
STEVOSTEG Fold        
Sinner60 Fold        
tiggi Fold        
Dudeskin8
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    call, setmine
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  • MohicanMohican
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre.:
    call, setmine
    Posted by grantorino
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    What he says.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    Ok so if this was QQ+ then what, only setmine pairs after 3bet up to JJ ?
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited August 2011
    I 4bet fairly big with AA/KK.

    QQ and JJ I'm calling
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre.:
    Ok so if this was QQ+ then what, only setmine pairs after 3bet up to JJ ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Not sure exactly what your question is?

    We are setmining JJ here because, from the limited info we have villains 3betting range is likely to be very tight, and he is giving us great odds to setmine. Generally if I flat a 3bet with JJ it wouldnt be just to setmine, and against decent players I sometimes just fold smaller pairs
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  • bolly580bolly580
    edited August 2011
    call to setmine, he giving great odds to call, only another 20p to go so you can still get away from hand.

    fold to large bet on flop obv if you dont hit.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN
    edited August 2011
    at this level all in readless!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre.:
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre. : Not sure exactly what your question is? We are setmining JJ here because, from the limited info we have villains 3betting range is likely to be very tight, and he is giving us great odds to setmine. Generally if I flat a 3bet with JJ it wouldnt be just to setmine, and against decent players I sometimes just fold smaller pairs
    Posted by grantorino
    What are you doing if it's a low board?
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre.:
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre. : What are you doing if it's a low board?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    well if Im setmining I c/f. Maybe Im giving too much value to the fact he openlimped AJ but I dont think JJ plays well against his 3betting range. I c/f low flop unless he bets very small and move on to next hand (In reality I convince myself to call him down and get shown AA). Its not my standard play and I could well be wrong
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre.:
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre. : well if Im setmining I c/f. Maybe Im giving too much value to the fact he openlimped AJ but I dont think JJ plays well against his 3betting range. I c/f low flop unless he bets very small and move on to next hand (In reality I convince myself to call him down and get shown AA). Its not my standard play and I could well be wrong
    Posted by grantorino
    Yep I can relate to this....

    Do good players really trust their plans enough to C/F JJ on 248r ???

    ------

    Totally off subject, but summat I wanted to ask about. I'll do it here rather than starting a new thread.

    Whats the plan with 3betting at lower mid stakes, or higher micro stakes whatever 20-40nl basically.....

    Against players who call 3bets wide or fold to 3bets, are we 3betting v wide, like any playable hand, because our value comes when they c/f most flops?

    Or are we doing it narrow and getting value purely from the strength of our hands?

    Should we be c bet bluffing in 3bet pots in position against most bad passive players? Or are we only continuing when we flop good equity?

    It's confusing me, because the info I've taken in lately says we don't bluff, but it also encourages us to 3b wide for value, but ofc we miss more flops than we hit....

    Therefore we're gonna be 3betting, checking flop and having to fold to their turn lead alot.

    Can u sum up in 1 or 2 lines something that makes sense of all the above, in terms of when, where and why we 3b, and how we play post flop in position in 3b pots v bad passive players.

    All the info is in my head, it's just all fuzzy.



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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre.:
    In Response to Re: JJ facing min 3bet pre. : Yep I can relate to this.... Do good players really trust their plans enough to C/F JJ on 248r ??? ------ Totally off subject, but summat I wanted to ask about. I'll do it here rather than starting a new thread. Whats the plan with 3betting at lower mid stakes, or higher micro stakes whatever 20-40nl basically..... Against players who call 3bets wide or fold to 3bets, are we 3betting v wide, like any playable hand, because our value comes when they c/f most flops? Or are we doing it narrow and getting value purely from the strength of our hands? Should we be c bet bluffing in 3bet pots in position against most bad passive players? Or are we only continuing when we flop good equity? It's confusing me, because the info I've taken in lately says we don't bluff, but it also encourages us to 3b wide for value, but ofc we miss more flops than we hit.... Therefore we're gonna be 3betting, checking flop and having to fold to their turn lead alot. Can u sum up in 1 or 2 lines something that makes sense of all the above, in terms of when, where and why we 3b, and how we play post flop in position in 3b pots v bad passive players. All the info is in my head, it's just all fuzzy.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Well I think if you decide you are setmining pre stick to that plan, if you decide JJ likely to be good on certain boards you can call and play poker. Not being consistent in my thought lines is something that I think costs me money anyway

    With the whole 3betting thing, I'll do my best to give my thoughts, but if you have read up on it a bit it they prob wont help much. 1st thing strikes me is you say  "Whats the plan with 3betting at lower mid stakes, or higher micro stakes whatever 20-40nl basically" which seems to me kinda the wrong question. I dont think you should just decide " oh I should 3bet more all the balla players do it" (I did this and spewed like crazy for a while). On the other hand you should always look for an edge and 3betting may be a way to increase your edge, but dont decide to just 3bet more for the sake of it

    Ok in a couple of sentences
    There are only two reasons to 3bet,  for value or as a bluff

    Against players who fold to 3bets a lot 3bet a polarised range, ie the very top of your range and bluffs.Hands like Axs and the top of your folding range are good hands to 3b bluff. Be careful about turning hands with value into bluffs by 3betting them (Hands like KQ, TT are examples of hands that may play well against opening ranges, but not against 3bet calling/4betting ranges)

    Against players who call wide, 3bet bluff very rarely and widen your 3bet value range

    Passive players fall into the later category and postflop they will usually play pretty straightforward. The best hand pre is usually the best hand post so I would cbet a good bit ip depending on texture, tendencies etc. Also be aware that passive players are often strong when they raise pre so dont 3bet them too often

    Your range for 3betting depends on villains opening ranges but more importantly their calling/4betting ranges. Even the worst players adjust if you keep 3betting them so you need to keep adjusting your ranges accordingly
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