18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?

The_Don90

BTN is a fish SB is VEry tight. His flatting range is QQ+ IMO.

#65795338104: Tournament #423795863, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (1500/3000) - 2011/08/10 8:19:21 WET [2011/08/10 3:19:21 ET]
Table '423795863 9' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: the_donscott (101669 in chips)
Seat 2: Burrito007 (103528 in chips)
Seat 3: devil08pt (289905 in chips)
Seat 4: canguroo (122032 in chips)
Seat 5: DVMDDB (92560 in chips)
Seat 6: DiPPina (149259 in chips)
the_donscott: posts the ante 300
Burrito007: posts the ante 300
devil08pt: posts the ante 300
canguroo: posts the ante 300
DVMDDB: posts the ante 300
DiPPina: posts the ante 300
devil08pt: posts small blind 1500
canguroo: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_donscott [Ah Kc]
DVMDDB: folds
DiPPina: folds
the_donscott: raises 4500 to 7500
Burrito007: raises 95728 to 103228 and is all-in
devil08pt: calls 101728
canguroo: folds
the_donscott: folds
*** FLOP *** [5h Js 7d]
*** TURN *** [5h Js 7d] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [5h Js 7d 8s] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
devil08pt: shows [Qh Qs] (a pair of Queens)
Burrito007: shows [Ac 9d] (high card Ace)
devil08pt collected 218756 from pot
Burrito007 finished the tournament in 17th place and received $18.17.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 218756 | Rake 0
Board [5h Js 7d 8s 4d]
Seat 1: the_donscott folded before Flop
Seat 2: Burrito007 (button) showed [Ac 9d] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 3: devil08pt (small blind) showed [Qh Qs] and won (218756) with a pair of Queens
Seat 4: canguroo (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: DVMDDB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: DiPPina folded before Flop (didn't bet)

rancid

Think you gotta get it in, but i don't mind the fold v two all ins with the stack sizes they hold - you can find a better percentage spot

lets say your against 9's and Q's at best your 36%

PiAnOpLaYa

with those sorts of reads its a good fold

LLCooLD

There's two questions here....

(1) do you give respect in a $1 tournament...ever.

(2) do you want to stack off with facing a 3bet shove for 30BB and, as you say, a tight player flat calling said large shove....NOPE.

WITH YOUR READS...Find a better spot. Good fold. 

PiAnOpLaYa

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

There's two questions here.... (1) do you give respect in a $1 tournament...ever. (2) do you want to stack off with facing a 3bet shove for 30BB and, as you say, a tight player flat calling said large shove....NOPE. WITH YOUR READS...Find a better spot. Good fold. 
Posted by LLCooLD

how many runners in the tourn?

i think at this late stage of the tourn people start to play more serious

$354 first place isnt to be sniffed at

LLCooLD

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : how many runners in the tourn? i think at this late stage of the tourn people start to play more serious $354 first place isnt to be sniffed at
Posted by PiAnOpLaYa

I dont get it, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? lol 

PiAnOpLaYa

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : I dont get it, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? lol 
Posted by LLCooLD

with only 18left in a tourn with 500+ runners i think u have to start giving people respect

LLCooLD

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : with only 18left in a tourn with 500+ runners i think u have to start giving people respect
Posted by PiAnOpLaYa

Oh right, you decided to pick the one point on my post other than the answer, and focus on that. Brilliant.

$1...there's a general reason why people are playing $1 tournaments, I think the fact one of the villians shoved 30BB with A9 proves my point about respecting players in a $1 tournament. 

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : Oh right, you decided to pick the one point on my post other than the answer, and focus on that. Brilliant. $1...there's a general reason why people are playing $1 tournaments, I think the fact one of the villians shoved 30BB with A9 proves my point about respecting players in a $1 tournament. 
Posted by LLCooLD

in fairness to villian i forgot to mention this in first post. I had raised the 3 previous hands in the same manner. However my post wasnt based on him, the single shove (A9 dude) is getting snapped off.

The other guy flats, and hes barley played a hand. I was wary to say the least.

LLCooLD

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : in fairness to villian i forgot to mention this in first post. I had raised the 3 previous hands in the same manner. However my post wasnt based on him, the single shove (A9 dude) is getting snapped off. The other guy flats, and hes barley played a hand. I was wary to say the least.
Posted by The_Don90

definitely bud, Im getting the f00k outta the hand, the fishy shove doesnt bother me, you have AK, arguably the 3rd/4th/5th best hand depending on which way you look at it, Im not folding that there. Its the flat call thats the problem. Even if that guy wasnt "very tight", what range flat calls a raise (albeit you've been active) + a 3bet for 30BB...thats a very narrow range doesnt matter who you are. 

Its a good fold, you were racing AT BEST. In my opinion you are up against only JJ+AK+....in which case you have 39% equity. 

How did you finish up anyway?

Codex

i think its a fold given read on small blind - would he likely call as opposed tp shove with AQ or AJ which is really what you would be hoping

snap call the first re-raise but the call from SB with your reads have to re-assess so good fold

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : definitely bud, Im getting the f00k outta the hand, the fishy shove doesnt bother me, you have AK, arguably the 3rd/4th/5th best hand depending on which way you look at it, Im not folding that there. Its the flat call thats the problem. Even if that guy wasnt "very tight", what range flat calls a raise (albeit you've been active) + a 3bet for 30BB...thats a very narrow range doesnt matter who you are.  Its a good fold, you were racing AT BEST. In my opinion you are up against only JJ+AK+....in which case you have 39% equity.  How did you finish up anyway?
Posted by LLCooLD

I came 15th. Guy who was UTG done a similar 30BB shove with AT i had AA QJx flop K turn ended that i was left with 22k back at 2500/5000 the point of no return without a miricle. Win that hand and i was second in chips and looking good for a $300 cash. sigh.

LLCooLD

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : I came 15th. Guy who was UTG done a similar 30BB shove with AT i had AA QJx flop K turn ended that i was left with 22k back at 2500/5000 the point of no return without a miricle. Win that hand and i was second in chips and looking good for a $300 cash. sigh.
Posted by The_Don90

ouch.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : ouch.
Posted by LLCooLD

it happens. i waited for a good spot while blind stealing and i found a perfect one. Its part of the reasons i wana get over my issues with cash because the margins between winning $18 and MEGA BUCKs can sometimes be 10% in a tourny. In cash at least i could have reloaded and got my money back with interest.

LLCooLD

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : it happens. i waited for a good spot while blind stealing and i found a perfect one. Its part of the reasons i wana get over my issues with cash because the margins between winning $18 and MEGA BUCKs can sometimes be 10% in a tourny. In cash at least i could have reloaded and got my money back with interest.
Posted by The_Don90

Their lies the problems with tournies, but as I said to you before, it only takes ONE tourney result to change everything. 

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term? : Their lies the problems with tournies, but as I said to you before, it only takes ONE tourney result to change everything. 
Posted by LLCooLD

Yeah defo i had 2 big ones in may and the pre games where quite similar to whats happening now. Playing well getting deep and getting unlucky. As a result im pretty confident another one is comming. In honesty i feel im improving vastly and i think comments on my last few hands posted are starting to reflect that. Im posting hands where i think im making errors and im getting positive replies.

Will be trying out cash next week but wana keep a tourny head on ATM for reasons thats pretty obvious.

grantorino

I think this is a call given dynamic and pot odds, prob depends on payouts also

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

I think this is a call given dynamic and pot odds, prob depends on payouts also
Posted by grantorino

$300-$400 for 1st/2nd

$12 for busting on this hand.

dylan12

I fold here given the dynamics - fwiw, I think your reading to much into his flat call, the guy behind only has 20K more and the all in covers you so pointless him moving his finger accross to the all in button cos his call is effectively an all in. 

Batkin88

never a call in my eyes he is flatting to get action so i would your near on never ahead here in my opinion

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 18 left in 6 max tourny AK in CO facing a 3bet shove and call. Profitable fold long term?:

I fold here given the dynamics - fwiw, I think your reading to much into his flat call, the guy behind only has 20K more and the all in covers you so pointless him moving his finger accross to the all in button cos his call is effectively an all in. 
Posted by dylan12

very good point mate.

ty for pointing that out tho

grantorino

yeah call and shove from villain are all the same here. I would find ~2.25/1 here hard to turn down unless villain is a complete nit, especially as he will expect your range to be very wide. Depends a bit what fish's perceived range is. I suspect with payout though an ICM calc would prob show this to be a fold, although I think it would be a +EV call in terms of chips