All in Squeeze not necessary?

mattless

This hand is from mid to late stages of Mini Roller last night. Original Raiser has been on table from the start is loose, was chip leader but has taken a hit in chips and imo could be opening very wide.

Btn is relatively new to the table, but has been involved a high number of hands, has nice stack and has been using it, but nothing out of the ordinary gone to showdown.

Whats the correct play, seems perfect opportunity to squeeze, can I raise to 3000 and fold to an all in shove - no I think, if I do raise to 3000 and get a caller and miss flop, I would c bet and then have to fold to shove?

Hence all in squeeze, but with 30 bbs is this too risky?

Thoughts please?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
timeforbed	Small blind		200.00	200.00	5735.00
mattless	Big blind		400.00	600.00	12777.35
	Your hole cards	A Q
jayden165	Raise		800.00	1400.00	7837.66
TommyD	Fold
JUICER	Call		800.00	2200.00	19579.99
timeforbed	Fold
mattless	All-in		12777.35	14977.35	0.00
jayden165	Fold
JUICER	Call		12377.35	27354.70	7202.64
mattless	Show	A Q
JUICER	Show	9 9
Flop
		K 9 8
Turn
		5
River
		10
JUICER	Win	Three 9s	27354.70		34557.34

Dudeskin8

I would probably just call pre flop, but tbf it's a pretty crazy call from Juicer.

YOUNG_GUN

I'd probably raise to 2600, you are too deep to squeeze here

DOHHHHHHH

Perfectooooo

delaney09

you can make a smaller raise its not necessary to 3bet to 3k, 3bet to maybe 2100-2400 if he comes straight over the top you can fold and still be left with 25bb,
 
but saying that the shove isnt the worst move when you say the the OR and button are both very active players and loose its difficult to put the button on much of a hand when he flats as well as the OR UTG raises he can have a wide range, so against both these players im going to do 1 of two things re raise to 2100-2400 then probably tank fold if they reshove, or do exactly what you have done and just stick it in and hope to get called by a worse Ace and hands like pocket 9s and below, which is exactly what you were called by just unlucky the flop murdered you

Codex

don't really like the shove here this deep


you could raise smaller - say 2500 to 3000 or call

on the whole, i'd prefer to call and re-assess on flop - i think you have decent chance to get paid when hit the flop and with little invested can get away from it if you miss

Codex

In Response to Re: All in Squeeze not necessary?:

you can make a smaller raise its not necessary to 3bet to 3k, 3bet to maybe 2100-2400 if he comes straight over the top you can fold and still be left with 25bb,   but saying that the shove isnt the worst move when you say the the OR and button are both very active players and loose its difficult to put the button on much of a hand when he flats as well as the OR UTG raises he can have a wide range, so against both these players im going to do 1 of two things re raise to 2100-2400 then probably tank fold if they reshove, or do exactly what you have done and just stick it in and hope to get called by a worse Ace and hands like pocket 9s and below, which is exactly what you were called by just unlucky the flop murdered you
Posted by delaney09

i don't like this at all - if you're going to 3bet fold to shove don't do it with decent hands!
it's 3bet call shove or just call

delaney09

In Response to Re: All in Squeeze not necessary?:

In Response to Re: All in Squeeze not necessary? : i don't like this at all - if you're going to 3bet fold to shove don't do it with decent hands! it's 3bet call shove or just call
Posted by Codex

its theoretically a min 3 bet you can easily fold to the re shove if you feel you can 1) find a better spot after only investing 6.5 bbs and leaving your self with a 25bb stack still which is more then enough to play with and find a better spot, also if you read my post i say you can fold to a re-shove not that you should fold to a re-shove,
 
you do not have to put your tournament on the line in which the outcome is most likely going to be a flip just because you have 3bet with AQs especially when you leave yourself 25 bigs behind as well as the tourney being anteless so there is still a tonne of play left.

But as i said also the shove v two loose active players is fine....

NColley

I actually might be tempted to disguise the strength of my hand and just call. Not always but its a possibility.
Need more info on button tbh, been bringing it in with a raise usually or always limping? Not bothered about Mr.Action too much because the shove is 100% correct vs him.

Stack is too light to make it 3k and then c bet a normal amount, so its either raise then check fold/risky shove missed flops or just shove pre imo.

Codex

before you 3bet, you should know whether you call or fold vs a shove / re-raise

when u have a hand as strong as AQs, if you don't want to get it all in pre-flop, don't 3bet, just call

if you had a weaker holding, like AJ or AT, then yes 3 bet fold to shove would be reasonable

delaney09

just realised your also OOP, so actually i would probably never 3bet here at all knowing you are going to probably get 2 callers then go into a flop oop in which you miss and cant really afford to put a c-bet in with out committing yourself so actually i would flat or do exactly what you have done, although i would probably take the flat option see a flop get away cheaply still have 30bigs and watch the other two go crazy at each other,

but i still dont mind the shove as it puts all your problems that you would of had on the flop in flatting/3-betting to one side and puts all the pressure on your two opponents

jams88

In Response to Re: All in Squeeze not necessary?:

before you 3bet, you should know whether you call or fold vs a shove / re-raise when u have a hand as strong as AQs, if you don't want to get it all in pre-flop, don't 3bet, just call if you had a weaker holding, like AJ or AT, then yes 3 bet fold to shove would be reasonable
Posted by Codex

If we 3bet here and get shoved on and call what are we hoping he is holding? 3 Bet fold seems reasonable to me.

I think a squeeze or a 3bet is fine here more inclined to the 3bet myself and then reasses on the flop

Codex

how is 3bet folding better than calling and seeing flop with AQs - if 3bet and get called, you are OOP leading into a 5-9k pot

percival09

3-bet folding isn't an option with openers stack

i think calling or shoving are the best options, the reason i like the shove over just a smaller raise is because if you get just flatted in either of the two positions, you're playing a big pot OOP which is never ideal .. fwiw with the reads you have, i'd shove

jams88

I would 3bet to try and get a heads up or possibly take the pot down there and then

rancid

looks like a really good call by Juicer tbh, I can understand why he limps but when you shove it kinda polarises your range. You could have 10's/J's but it looks like AJ/AQ/AK.

There's a min raise and a call so with AQ I don't mind the shove but be prepered to be called with better.
Maybe a call here is better and see what the flop brings. If it goes check check on flop then bet and see.
Getting it in here with AQ 30 BB's - I don't like it - risk - reward - look what your risking to win the pot

grantorino

I prob 3b/c but dont mind the shove.

3b/f would be horrible

rancid

In Response to Re: All in Squeeze not necessary?:

I prob 3b/c but dont mind the shove. 3b/f would be horrible
Posted by grantorino

I have noticed a lot of people are advocating the 3bet but there seems to be no mention of how they would then play to a raise/shove or a call and you go to the flop

Certain people seem to think if they 3bet and then everyone just folds

If your 3 betting then like Codex has said you need to be sure of your next move, you need to be one step ahead. What if I 3bet and they:
a. 4 bet Shove
b. 4 bet raise
c. call,
whats my plan for the flop -
if a. no Q or A
 b. Q hits
 c. Ace hits

Especially when you OOP you need to know 100% before you 3 bet as you have no information
If you was in position then you will have some information from the previous action

grantorino

Well Im getting it in if raised. If flatted I cbet most flops, prob b/f if I miss, b/c if i hit

Calling pre is a valid option imo, but I prefer 3betting 3way oop