100nl, top pair no kicker in 4bet pot.

DOHHHHHHH

Looks like the table has broken and we're playing HU.

About 7/8 months ago when I used to take drunken shots at 100nl I can remember this villain 3betting me to death like 3betting upto 50% of my opens. Been playing abit more 100nl recently and he picked up where he left off, just re-raising me all the time.

He 3b me with Ax suited (think it was A7s, but can't remember, deffo wasn't bigger than ATs) , and I won a 400xbb pot with a full house v his nut flush - showing that I peeled in position with pocket 10s.

I've prob 4bet a couple of times but he hadn't seen me showdown in any of those hands as he'd folded.

He's a good player, obviously knows I play lower than this normally and is trying to exploit it.

This time I decide to 4b again, not giving him any credit for a hand.

I think it's bad to fold top pair in a 4b pot 112xbb deep right? so that's not what I'm worried about here, I have to get it in.....

2 points..

Do I have to bet this flop? I'm no longer bluffing as I have top pair, so there's no real need to bet and get it in?

Also...

How much value does the weak flush draw add to my hand? Or is it just so weak that I shouldn't even consider it?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
DOHHHHHHH	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£112.00
xxx	Big blind		£1.00	£1.50	£125.00
	Your hole cards	K 4
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£2.50	£4.00	£109.50
xxx	Raise		£9.00	£13.00	£116.00
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£24.00	£37.00	£85.50
xxx	Call		£17.00	£54.00	£99.00
Flop
		8 Q K
xxx	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£29.00	£83.00	£56.50
xxx	All-in		£99.00	£182.00	£0.00
DOHHHHHHH

GREGHOGG

1. I would bet the flop and get it in here! because if our K is good, and a 4th spade comes on the turn, we are losing value from it and facing a tough decision.

2. the flush draw does affect my decision because its there as a possible back up. If its dead, then your pair of K's could well be good anyway because he could have As.

If your gonna bet that strongly pre with junk, then when you connect in this way you may as well stack off lol.

Think you played it fine even if you are a drunken fool lol

yb

4bet smaller imo

i'd just b/c the flop, but again i'd bet smaller. obviously the 4s helps our hand because we fare a lot better against the villain's range with that.

yb

looking at it again your 4bet size is truly horrible lol, wayyyyy too big

DOHHHHHHH

A min 4b would be to 18xbb....I made it 24xbb???

Is that really bad???

On the flop a half pot bet would be 27xbb, I bet 29xbb....

Why r these sizes bad?:S

yb

a min 4 bet would have been to 17bbs total, you made it 27bbs, which is huge in a hu pot in position, you're making your bluffs way too expensive.

if I got to the flop with the pot that big I'd just bet like 19 or something so at least he can think I'm bluffing some of the time and has some fold equity. that would make the pot 92 with 66 behind to make for a nice turn shove size.

grantorino

4bet smaller, 20 is fine imo

Not sure you have to go broke with top pair in a 4bet pot when you were bluffing pre (maybe you do its not something I've thought about before). People flatting 4bets tilts me no end, any idea of his range? I might just c/f, the only worse hands I see continuing to a bet are maybe JJ with a spade, maybe AsQx, AsJx. If you bet you obv get it in, less than 1/2 pot is fine.

can everyone saying get it in explain why they think its going to be profitable (It may well be, and c/f may be awful I just dont see us being in good shape when we get it in)

LnarinOO

i agree, 4bet slighlty smaller but its not horrible as ur slighlty deeper.

this flop hits his 4bet calling range hard so bettin is risky as hes gonna c/raise allin a high % of the time, and we not doin good at all vs his c/r range..

yes u have TP and a small FD but this is a pretty bad hand..! bet fold or check for pot control and revaluate on the turn.!

debdobs_67

I reckon ure drawing practically dead as oppo has ure number and has ya crushed , but thats just imo )

AMYBR

I understand your line but is seems quite needless.  You've got yourself in a really bad spot playing for stacks and being compelled to call, mostly down to leveling.  Do you call expecting to see anything worse than 1pr + superior flush draw bud.

I think you need to give your self credit for fearlessness, but find the fold button.  Even if you post the complete hand showing you win, its still an awful spot to find yourself in.

I dont really think you have to get it in at all, Once he calls your 4 bet then shoves over the top on flop your only beating such a thin range and adversley flipping vs the rest.

If your bet calling ai, or willing to crai, I think I may just shove flop hoping to make better hands fold, rather than allow a known prankster to give you a tricky decision.

In complete honesty I would be inclined to check flop looking to gather some recon, especially if I had already made my mind up to call off my stack when opening.  I may even fold to a bet on flop depending on feel

EDIT.  Didnt realise this was heads up.  As played has to go in on flop, after opening.  I dont give any extra strength to my hand with the 4s mostly.