nl4 playing against a draw

jams88

Is there an argument for pot control until the river and assesing your hand then in nl4? Im definatly ontilt as i write this so sorry if it sounds like a bad beat thread its not supposed to be.  1st hand i think i played perfectly (feel free to pick it apart and tell me i didnt) 2nd think i played pretty well and had to call on the river 3rd i maybe could have got off and im aware i limped but iv found raising this hand in to cost me alot more over time generally i would fold but being slightly tilted and the table dynamic as it was thought it was correct at the time. Any input appriciated as im 6 BI down today and i don't think i have done much wrong in most of the major hands

1

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
dotsmum	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.37
money12345	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.56
	Your hole cards	K Q
Seagull158	Fold
grandad_3	Raise		£0.08	£0.14	£2.72
jams88	Call		£0.08	£0.22	£3.86
dotsmum	Call		£0.06	£0.28	£3.31
money12345	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£3.52
Flop
		4 9 Q
dotsmum	Check
money12345	Bet		£0.16	£0.48	£3.36
grandad_3	Call		£0.16	£0.64	£2.56
jams88	Raise		£0.72	£1.36	£3.14
dotsmum	Fold
money12345	Fold
grandad_3	Call		£0.56	£1.92	£2.00
Turn
		2
grandad_3	Check
jams88	Bet		£2.00	£3.92	£1.14
grandad_3	All-in		£2.00	£5.92	£0.00
grandad_3	Show	K J
jams88	Show	K Q
River
		4
grandad_3	Win	Flush to the King	£5.47		£5.47

2

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
lfccarl	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.90
jams88	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£5.74
	Your hole cards	10 A
chaper	Fold
ZedsDeadBa	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£6.03
DOC_56	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.51
lfccarl	Call		£0.02	£0.16	£5.88
jams88	Check
Flop
		A 2 Q
lfccarl	Check
jams88	Bet		£0.16	£0.32	£5.58
ZedsDeadBa	Fold
DOC_56	Call		£0.16	£0.48	£3.35
lfccarl	Fold
Turn
		8
jams88	Bet		£0.36	£0.84	£5.22
DOC_56	Call		£0.36	£1.20	£2.99
River
		A
jams88	Bet		£0.90	£2.10	£4.32
DOC_56	All-in		£2.99	£5.09	£0.00
jams88	Call		£2.09	£7.18	£2.23
jams88	Show	10 A
DOC_56	Show	K 3
DOC_56	Win	Flush to the Ace	£6.64		£6.64

3

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
ZedsDeadBa	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.28
bigedd3205	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.27
	Your hole cards	J 10
DOC_56	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.57
lfccarl	Fold
jams88	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£4.00
chaper	Fold
ZedsDeadBa	Call		£0.02	£0.16	£3.26
bigedd3205	Check
Flop
		Q A K
ZedsDeadBa	Check
bigedd3205	Check
DOC_56	Bet		£0.08	£0.24	£4.49
jams88	Raise		£0.32	£0.56	£3.68
ZedsDeadBa	Fold
bigedd3205	Call		£0.32	£0.88	£1.95
DOC_56	Call		£0.24	£1.12	£4.25
Turn
		8
bigedd3205	Check
DOC_56	Bet		£0.24	£1.36	£4.01
jams88	Call		£0.24	£1.60	£3.44
bigedd3205	Call		£0.24	£1.84	£1.71
River
		A
bigedd3205	Check
DOC_56	Bet		£0.92	£2.76	£3.09
jams88	Call		£0.92	£3.68	£2.52
bigedd3205	Call		£0.92	£4.60	£0.79
DOC_56	Show	4 6
jams88	Muck	J 10
bigedd3205	Muck	K J
DOC_56	Win	Flush to the Ace	£4.25		£7.34

I thought i was getting the hang of nl4 but in my last 2 sessions iv undone all the work of the last week feeling abit grrrrrrrr atm so taking a break hopefully back on form when i have a clear head

debdobs_67

All flushes i see , vv standard im afraid ul xxx

PS get well soon ) xxx

Lambert180

1. I definitely raise pre, to around 20-24p. Good flop, good turn, ul on the river.

2. Don't check it on the BB pre, I raise again to about 20p. Otherwise a bit unlucky again.

3. As you've already said, don't limp, fold or raise. I think you definitely gotta put in a big reraise in on the turn. I know this time he had the flush, but most of the time he won't have it and you're gonna get called by possibly Ax, AK, AQ, KQ, someone with the Q or J of spades and so on. His 24p into 1.12 was a very tame bet and you flopped the nuts. I know the flush was completed on the turn but you're not gonna be up against a flush there as often as you are the other hands i mentioned.

DOHHHHHHH

Don't see much wrong with these hands at all.

Raise flop bigger in hand 3 would be the only thing really.

jenny_IYY

In Response to Re: nl4 playing against a draw:

Don't see much wrong with these hands at all. Raise flop bigger in hand 3 would be the only thing really.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

This +1

Dudeskin8

1. I don't mind flatting on the button, can't see the need to 3bet and possibly get shoved on where you then will have to fold. Post flop is perfect this guy is someone you want to play a LOT.

2. Raise pre to about 26-30p.

As played pot bet good on flop, turn good bet, river good bet and with flush being backdoor I can't fold here lol.

3. Don't limp along, honestly I know it's so tempting but it really is best to raise or fold I usually just fold these hands as I'm a dirty nit and know I WILL get paid with better hands easier.

As played, flop good raise, turn horrible, with small bet call ok, although river looks 'I want a call' so gotta fold.

jams88

In Response to Re: nl4 playing against a draw:

1. I don't mind flatting on the button, can't see the need to 3bet and possibly get shoved on where you then will have to fold. Post flop is perfect this guy is someone you want to play a LOT. 2. Raise pre to about 26-30p. As played pot bet good on flop, turn good bet, river good bet and with flush being backdoor I can't fold here lol. 3. Don't limp along, honestly I know it's so tempting but it really is best to raise or fold I usually just fold these hands as I'm a dirty nit and know I WILL get paid with better hands easier. As played, flop good raise, turn horrible, with small bet call ok, although river looks 'I want a call' so gotta fold.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Raise oop with A10o? not sure im comftable with this play myself not many flops im going to like but im can be a weak player at times im working on it. I'll try this and see how i do would you be comfortable getting it in with A10 if you hit the A on the flop in nl4?

jams88

thanks for the posts guys sometimes my confidence takes a knock when im on a bad run and i start to think poker isn't for me but as long aslong as im making the right descions mostly hopefully it will even out

jams88

In Response to Re: nl4 playing against a draw:

All flushes i see , vv standard im afraid ul xxx PS get well soon ) xxx
Posted by debdobs_67

I'll be back tomorrow im sure can never stay away long haha x

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: nl4 playing against a draw:

In Response to Re: nl4 playing against a draw : Raise oop with A10o? not sure im comftable with this play myself not many flops im going to like but im can be a weak player at times im working on it. I'll try this and see how i do would you be comfortable getting it in with A10 if you hit the A on the flop in nl4?
Posted by jams88

No one has shown ANY strength in limping so you must assume you have the best hand as you would with AK/AQ/AJ. The raise you make should be to try and isolate one player and depending on flop you can cbet small which can work.

grantorino

1. I might 3bet pre, raising flop prob ok but I call sometimes, rest fine

2. Raise pre, I think c/c is better than betting on this board

3. raise or fold pre, rest is fine

jams88

and so it continues today (im not ommiting winning hands there haven't been any wins over 50p!! SHould i give up on cash and stick to tourny play?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
jaybasc	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.92
clegger	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.25
KOALASTU24	Sit out
	Your hole cards	J J
nuttyboy1	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£0.78
jams88	Raise		£0.28	£0.38	£3.50
copthis1	Fold
jaybasc	Call		£0.26	£0.64	£2.66
clegger	Fold
nuttyboy1	Fold
Flop
		Q 5 4
jaybasc	Check
jams88	Bet		£0.50	£1.14	£3.00
jaybasc	Call		£0.50	£1.64	£2.16
Turn
		3
jaybasc	Check
jams88	All-in		£3.00	£4.64	£0.00
jaybasc	All-in		£2.16	£6.80	£0.00
jams88	Unmatched bet		£0.84	£5.96	£0.84
jaybasc	Show	5 9
jams88	Show	J J
River
		5
jaybasc	Win	Three 5s	£5.51		£5.51

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
freddie	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.46
riverluck9	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.08
	Your hole cards	K Q
bukkkk1	Fold
jams88	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£3.86
freddie	Call		£0.18	£0.44	£1.28
riverluck9	Fold
Flop
		4 K 4
freddie	Check
jams88	Bet		£0.44	£0.88	£3.42
freddie	All-in		£1.28	£2.16	£0.00
jams88	Call		£0.84	£3.00	£2.58
freddie	Show	4 3
jams88	Show	K Q
Turn
		5
River
		6
freddie	Win	Three 4s	£2.77		£2.77

what now??

layer	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
sparky2368	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.08
codzilla	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£0.97
	Your hole cards	K A
UKCW	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£7.33
jams88	Raise		£0.28	£0.38	£5.12
wasteking	Fold
sparky2368	Fold
codzilla	Fold
UKCW	Call		£0.24	£0.62	£7.09
Flop
		J 4 7
UKCW	Check
jams88	Bet		£0.47	£1.09	£4.65
UKCW	Call		£0.47	£1.56	£6.62
Turn
		2
UKCW	Check
jams88	Check
River
		8
UKCW	Bet		£1.56	£3.12	£5.06

cooler against the guy who called with 34 earlier

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
flower11	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.02
freddie	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.56
	Your hole cards	K A
riverluck9	Fold
bukkkk1	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£1.04
jams88	All-in		£2.58	£2.80	£0.00
flower11	Fold
freddie	All-in		£2.56	£5.36	£0.00
bukkkk1	Fold
freddie	Unmatched bet		£0.02	£5.34	£0.02
freddie	Show	6 6
jams88	Show	K A
Flop
		4 7 4
Turn
		5
River
		Q
freddie	Win	Two Pairs, 6s and 4s	£4.93		£4.95

is this a bad shove? i don't have him noted as a reg

jams88	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.94
copthis1	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.50
	Your hole cards	10 10
jaybasc	Fold
clegger	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£2.95
nuttyboy1	Call		£0.20	£0.46	£0.50
KOALASTU24	Fold
jams88	All-in		£3.94	£4.40	£0.00
copthis1	Fold
clegger	All-in		£2.95	£7.35	£0.00
nuttyboy1	Fold
jams88	Unmatched bet		£0.81	£6.54	£0.81
jams88	Show	10 10
clegger	Show	K K
Flop
		Q Q 2
Turn
		9
River
		2
clegger	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and Queens	£6.04		£6.04

Dudeskin8

1. Pre fine, flop good, turn not over the moon about shoving after strong cbet is called when most players can't fold TP. I'd probably chk bak here but you got him in and got a bad beat.

2. Pre fine, flop fine, hard to put him on a 4 here when he calls pre OOP.

3. Pre good, I'd cbet smaller personally, fold river.

4. Shove fine, I might just reraise instead and call off though but unlucky that 6's call.

5. I'd just flat call pre and look for good flops.