Snap fold on flop?

silentbob

This hand confused me. I've recently moved back up to this level & have no notes on X.

I don't have any real reads on him but I would say that's mainly down to the fact that I was playing 3 tables. Not seen any of his hands go to showdown but one hand that did stick out was about 4 or 5 prior to this where he limped in MP with KK & ended up winning a pot of about 40p, mainly due to a couple of aces coming board. Other than that I can't recall him getting out of line.

My plan for flatting pre was to set mine or look for a low flop. Other than hitting my set this is pretty much the sort of flop I was looking for but when he open shoves on the flop I really didn't know what to do.

Given his previous hand with kings it's possible that he has a big pair & is looking to play it more aggro but would someone really open shove 165bb with a big pair? The other thought could be that he'd hit a set but again, surely you wouldn't bet that big even to protect against a flush draw & I'm not entirely sure he'd limp/3 bet 44,77 or 88 pre OOP either. At the time the more I thought about it the more I thought it was overs but do I really want to be racing at best sat this deep?

So is this always a snap fold given the situation or does anyone make the call?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£10.30
	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£7.92
	Your hole cards	10 10
X	Call		£0.08	£0.20	£14.38
	Fold
silentbob	Raise		£0.32	£0.52	£14.55
	Fold
	Fold
	Fold
X	Raise		£1.20	£1.72	£13.18
silentbob	Call		£0.96	£2.68	£13.59
Flop
		4 8 7
X	All-in		£13.18	£15.86	£0.00
silentbob	???

grantorino

call pre just to setmine, fold now

Dudeskin8

Yh that 3bet is VERY strong and espeically after limp/3betting looks like donkey play wiv AA/KK.

Have to fold for me.

debdobs_67

Defo a fold

WHOAMI196

its no way a snap fold, you should not call pre to set mine! way to strong for that..

Alarm bells should not be ringing after one re raise pre, to narrow his range down a re raise to 2.80 would be ok , saves you money, as its easier to get away from the hand  if he shows more strength as its a more complete believable story.

his shove is ridiculous, granted. And you can only call profitably here if you got reads on him, you should have paid attention lol

yb

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

its no way a snap fold, you should not call pre to set mine! way to strong for that.. Alarm bells should not be ringing after one re raise pre, to narrow his range down a re raise to 2.80 would be ok , saves you money, as its easier to get away from the hand  if he shows more strength as its a more complete believable story. his shove is ridiculous, granted. And you can only call profitably here if you got reads on him, you should have paid attention lol
Posted by WHOAMI196

4b/folding is terrible in this situation, calling to setmine is fine considering that villain's range is normally very strong here and if we hit our set we double up.

grantorino

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

its no way a snap fold, you should not call pre to set mine! way to strong for that.

What do you think villains range is? If we call what way do you plan to play flop

 Alarm bells should not be ringing after one re raise pre, to narrow his range down a re raise to 2.80 would be ok , saves you money, as its easier to get away from the hand  if he shows more strength as its a more complete believable story.

So our hand is too strong to setmine with, but you want to turn it into a bluff. Doesnt make much sense to me. If I wanted to bluff I would prefer not waste a hand as strong as TT 

his shove is ridiculous, granted. And you can only call profitably here if you got reads on him, you should have paid attention lol

Hero has posted some reads, and I doubt the situation where villain limp raises pre then massively overshoves pot has happened too often or maybe he would give more specific reads
Posted by WHOAMI196

4b/f is bluffing, TT too strong for that imo. I wouldnt normally be flatting TT just to setmine, but there is a good chance villain is very strong here, which means we usually need to improve and will have big implied odds if we do

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop? : 4b/folding is terrible in this situation, calling to setmine is fine considering that villain's range is normally very strong here and if we hit our set we double up.
Posted by yb

4 betting there is not terrible, its a drifferent route to take given the stack sizes and its a good choice if ur unsure on what to put him on(explain why its terrible b4 ruling it out m8), calling to set mine sounds silly with a strong hand like 1010 ..so weak imo...what would the hero do if villain bet 2/3 pot..does he fold or is he still set mining?? :S 

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop? : 4b/f is bluffing, TT too strong for that imo. I wouldnt normally be flatting TT just to setmine, but there is a good chance villain is very strong here, which means we usually need to improve and will have big implied odds if we do
Posted by grantorino

theres a differebce to bluffing and taking controll of the pot nob. u say flatting 1010 JUST to set mine ..as i said to ur girlfriend what happens if he bet 2/3 of the pot you just give up because u kno he has AA becaused he did a standard three bet pre....and not all oppo will shove the flop so saying you have big implied odds are flawed ....oh and BTW its NL8 ffs

grantorino

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop? : theres a differebce to bluffing and taking controll of the pot nob. u say flatting 1010 JUST to set mine ..as i said to ur girlfriend what happens if he bet 2/3 of the pot you just give up because u kno he has AA becaused he did a standard three bet pre....and not all oppo will shove the flop so saying you have big implied odds are flawed ....oh and BTW its NL8 ffs
Posted by WHOAMI196

If I am setmining I fold if he bets a low board. I prob fold the best hand sometimes. If his range is as strong as I think he usually puts enough in postflop when I hit to make setmining profitable imo

Again what do you think villains range is when he limpraises?

when you 4bet what do you acheive?

also lol at your overreaction, calling me names doesnt make your argument any better

yb

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop? : 4 betting there is not terrible, its a drifferent route to take given the stack sizes and its a good choice if ur unsure on what to put him on(explain why its terrible b4 ruling it out m8), calling to set mine sounds silly with a strong hand like 1010 ..so weak imo...what would the hero do if villain bet 2/3 pot..does he fold or is he still set mining?? :S 
Posted by WHOAMI196

by 4b/folding all you're really doing is losing a bigger pot when you're behind and winning a smaller pot if he's bluffing, but in reality players are bluffing really really rarely when they limp/3bet at 10nl so its definitely going to be a losing play imo. Basically you're saying he should 4bet to ask the question but I don't think that's ever a good reason to do anything.

Given the way the hand has played out I think he can still fold if villain bets 2/3 pot.

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: Snap fold on flop?:

In Response to Re: lol at your overreaction, calling me names doesnt make your argument any better
Posted by grantorino

sorry bout that! but your reply was a bit ott with the red writing n stuff, one thing i will say is !"DOH" i didnt realize he limped there, changes my views a bit.. so ok theres no need to 4 bet, ...feel like a c*&t now ugh lost interest in this hand now lol plus im at work and meant to be working ......

silentbob

Thanks peeps.

As it was I did fold. Personally if I have something like AA/KK in his position (assuming for a moment he is that strong) then I certainly wouldn't be shoving like that, but if there's one thing I've learned that hard way at this level is that there are people who go crazy with their betting when they've got hands like this.

TBH, if he bets like 1/2 pot or so I might call to see if I can take it away on the turn but anymore than that & I think I'm more inclined to fold given his action pre.

As far as his range goes I think the only thing I'm beating here is AK or sometimes AQ. I can't think of any other hands he could play this way that I'm good against.

FWIW, If I 4b pre here it's with the intention of getting it all in which I don't want to do given his action.

rancid

The only hands your beating is 99 and AK spades that would do this, even though I don't like your odds v AKs

Sometimes you gotta fold em. Don't forget the pre action when the flop comes down