Was this an easy fold or correct

mr_mbro

Hi All,
constructive comments please, pro and cons of you thoughts would help yerActionCardsAmountPotBalancemontydaveSmall blind 400.00400.0058487.52jon2511Big blind 800.001200.0030722.48 Your hole cardsKK   chemFold    FISH9Fold    mr_mbroRaise 2400.003600.0030510.00montydaveCall 2000.005600.0056487.52jon2511Call 1600.007200.0029122.48Flop  Q7J   montydaveCheck    jon2511Bet 1600.008800.0027522.48mr_mbroRaise 12000.0020800.0018510.00montydaveFold    jon2511Call 10400.0031200.0017122.48Turn  J   jon2511All-in 17122.4848322.480.00mr_mbroFold    jon2511Muck    jon2511Win 31200.00 31200.00jon2511Return 17122.480.0048322.48
Thanks Colin

AMYBR

I call here.  He cant love the board pairing at turn and I doubt he opens flop then calls off 12k with 2nd pair.

I'd raise less pre and less on the flop: unless betsize was designed for opponent to commit himself.  Even then I think I'm more inclined to make it 4700 on flop.  Your bet is massive.  Looses value from weaker hands when ahead, making it pretty easy for them to get away from top pair.

Problem is your bet size makes a shove oop mandatory once called.  For this reason and pot size I snap call I think.  You cant really fold to any turn card here I think once you commit so much on flop.  As said, he has to jam any Q that called the flop.  I think if you had utilised better pot control his hand would have been much easier to see.

Just looked again and was pretty surprised to see you folded holding Kh here.  You've generated a massive pot with K's.  Opponent is never c/f'ing turn once he's called 12k.  I dont love it, but I call.  As stated very unlikely he plays a J here, maybe flush but you have odds to improve when he doesnt hold Ah, or fill up (value on pot size).

Dudeskin8

Raise smaller pre bout 1900 for me.

Flop good.

Turn nasty card, you have to call off 21 bigs, I might fold here being a nit but I think call is ok.

delaney09

pre fine, flop raise is to big to just fold the turn when he shoves... i make it probably 4.5-5.5k on the flop to be able to let go on the turn if you feel you are behind, its possible he is sat there w/ QJ/77/Axhh but i would be shoving all of these when you make the massive raise on the flop.

Turn isn't fantastic for you when it pairs the board (dont think he ever has a house here way its played) brings the flush (potentially has two low hearts, doubt he is shoving Axhh here, he is more likely checking to induce the shove,) but you are sat with the Kh so you have outs to a redraw aslong as long as he doesnt hold the Ah, aswell as full house opportunities, once you raise that big on the flop i think you more or less have to call his shove on the turn when its 17k to win 66k getting nearly 4/1

WHOAMI196

GOOD FOLD MR m bro ...you seem deep in a tourney, you want to avoid marginal spots, you can only beat a bluff,i would put him on a flush. He could even have a j even since he was only in the pot as he was getting a decent price on the bb, which makes it less likely hed bluff i think. ur better than me because i would not be able to fold there...so wont give u advice lol maybe bet smaller pre  as the dude said..

PuppetJack

It's a massive laydown.  I'm not sure I could put it down, if he has got the flush, you still have the redraw with the K ( asuming he didn't have the ace) the fact he called your huuuge re-raise on the flop suggests he had something, but that's quite pssibly only a Q anyway.

Without knowing how he was playing it's hard to gauge, but as someone else said, sometimes when you're deep in a tourney you just wanna steer clear of big battles.

mr_mbro

Hi All,
Thanks for the feedback, I posted this expecting the majority to say i should have called, but, as one of you said his call on the flop did put doubts in my head and then when the poss flush came with the second jack, it filled up the range of hands that i had him on. I still had 20+ big blinds and as it was the £200 super BH last night, i didnt want to hope that he hadnt hit, either the flush or a J, so all i was beating was a bluff of a bare Queen, i was still in the tourney.
As it was i did stay all the way to win it and sometimes it is not the hands you play rather the times you get away from that win you an event. Iwill say if i was down to under 10 bbs i would have probably called, but thats the secret, i still had a playable stack and could afford to fold at that stage.
Maybe im just a nit at heart lol.
If i can give a bit of advice back, NOTHING is an auto call, as long as you can justify your decisions and have no regrets, then it is the right play, regardless.
Thanks
Colin

debdobs_67

Fair play to ya col as im pretty sure i cant fold it xx

AMYBR

ROFTW

Whats the thought process behind the bet size on flop bud?  I assume you were hoping he'd rejam or roll the dice with a draw?

grantorino

Reads would be nice.

I dont see any reason to raise flop so big.
Once you do you have to stick it in on turn imo. You are getting close to 3/1 with overpair+draw against a guy who plays his hand badly no matter what he has imo. If he can have a jack here he definitely can have a queen. Its not a fistpump call by any means, but you should be good a decent % of time

Also, just because you won the tournament doesnt mean this was a good fold, and something is not always the right play just because you have no regrets. People often win tournaments after bad decisions and lose them after good ones. If you think the fold was the right decision fine, but I dont think the fact you won the tournament should mean it was the right decision

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Was this an easy fold or correct:

Reads would be nice. I dont see any reason to raise flop so big. Once you do you have to stick it in on turn imo. You are getting close to 3/1 with overpair+draw against a guy who plays his hand badly no matter what he has imo. If he can have a jack here he definitely can have a queen. Its not a fistpump call by any means, but you should be good a decent % of time Also, just because you won the tournament doesnt mean this was a good fold, and something is not always the right play just because you have no regrets. People often win tournaments after bad decisions and lose them after good ones. If you think the fold was the right decision fine, but I dont think the fact you won the tournament should mean it was the right decision
Posted by grantorino

+1

In alot of ways I suspect this was a bad fold and, as above, going on to win doesnt change that.  My real issue with the hand is that given your over raise (losing so much potential value) on flop you leave opponent with no choive but to jam oop @ turn.  He cant c/f or lead fold a Q.  A Q being much more likely than 2nd pair for turned trips or a flush, as he is more likely to 3bet jam the Heart draw than flat flop then jam turn.  But even when holding a flush you have given yourself more than a reasonable price to redraw to possibly better flush or fillup.

Again, opponent has to jam a Q here.  You leave him no choice.  Q being most likely hand.  Once you bet this much on flop there shouldnt be many turn cards that you seriously consider folding to.  I am always the first to say that you should never be prepared to auto stack off in any spot.  But you leave yourself no real avenue to do so bud.

Well done on the win though

percival09

I min raise on BTN -  think 3X is too much at this stage with no antes

bet sizing is horrible on flop - it'd be ok if both were deep, but you need to play within stack sizes

i am never folding here