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Your thoughts on this hand please
Game playing very wild and with perfect position on a Massive fish who wont fold anything when this happens. I just call pre to try and set mine simply because we are all playing deep and i know others are going to try and isolate fish and dont want to be reraised and also because i wont like any board without a 8 on it and repping hands just dosnt work v the fish who calls down ATC all the time.
There was a discussion on the mastercash show last week about value betting etc and about how much to bet v certain players and imo this is a prime example.
The reg i am up against is certainly a winning player but i am also certain that he wont fold overpairs with a gun to his head and on this board i felt like the shove looked more like a draw than a set or floped straight so was almost certain he calls with what i was pretty sure was a overpair.
V many other players i only raise flop then push any card turn or call all in reraise flop but v this particular opo i felt the best play was to just get it all in on flop.
Anyways after the hand was played he typed something in chat about my shove being a crazy play etc and although i thought i had played it perfectly v the opo i was up against i was just wondering what the regs on here thought of it ?
TY Jenny.
Hand History #407164008 (04:10 27/08/2011)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceREG PLAYER
Small blind £0.50£0.50£118.20rebullBig blind £1.00£1.50£159.45 Your hole cards88 FISH
Call £1.00£2.50£148.90jenny_IYYCall £1.00£3.50£168.36goldfoxdomFold BOMBDOGFold REG PLAYER
Raise £6.00£9.50£112.20rebullFold FISH
Call £5.50£15.00£143.40jenny_IYYCall £5.50£20.50£162.86Flop 768 REG PLAYER
Bet £10.25£30.75£101.95FISH
Fold jenny_IYYAll-in £162.86£193.61£0.00REG PLAYER
All-in £101.95£295.56£0.00jenny_IYYUnmatched bet £50.66£244.90£50.66REG PLAYER
ShowKK jenny_IYYShow88 Turn J River 3 jenny_IYYWinThree 8s£243.10 £293.76
There was a discussion on the mastercash show last week about value betting etc and about how much to bet v certain players and imo this is a prime example.
The reg i am up against is certainly a winning player but i am also certain that he wont fold overpairs with a gun to his head and on this board i felt like the shove looked more like a draw than a set or floped straight so was almost certain he calls with what i was pretty sure was a overpair.
V many other players i only raise flop then push any card turn or call all in reraise flop but v this particular opo i felt the best play was to just get it all in on flop.
Anyways after the hand was played he typed something in chat about my shove being a crazy play etc and although i thought i had played it perfectly v the opo i was up against i was just wondering what the regs on here thought of it ?
TY Jenny.
Hand History #407164008 (04:10 27/08/2011)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceREG PLAYER
Small blind £0.50£0.50£118.20rebullBig blind £1.00£1.50£159.45 Your hole cards88 FISH
Call £1.00£2.50£148.90jenny_IYYCall £1.00£3.50£168.36goldfoxdomFold BOMBDOGFold REG PLAYER
Raise £6.00£9.50£112.20rebullFold FISH
Call £5.50£15.00£143.40jenny_IYYCall £5.50£20.50£162.86Flop 768 REG PLAYER
Bet £10.25£30.75£101.95FISH
Fold jenny_IYYAll-in £162.86£193.61£0.00REG PLAYER
All-in £101.95£295.56£0.00jenny_IYYUnmatched bet £50.66£244.90£50.66REG PLAYER
ShowKK jenny_IYYShow88 Turn J River 3 jenny_IYYWinThree 8s£243.10 £293.76
Comments
As for the hand if the reg has questioned ure play then how about the calling of ure shove with an overpair ? what does he think youve shoved with that he should call?
You shove and you get paid then happy days - the majority of the time you will see someone fold an overpair because they feel they can't call with QQ and lower
If you feel he is on a overpair then the flop and turn extration bets are a nice line, then just shove river
With the shove then your giving someone a reason to fold rarther than a reason to call, as you have flopped a set you want to give them a reason to call. Hoping he thinks your drawing to a str i think is not good, maybe if the board was wetter with FD aswell then a shove doesn't feel so out of place. You could be doing this with 9's but it seems like such a bold move. He only bet half pot so I am sure you would just call and take another card in a £30 pot.
But anyway feels like you have turned a value hand into a semi bluff hand, for that reason I don't think you need to do this.
You obviously knew he couldnt fold by what you said in op post about playing it different v other reg players and have only played it this way knowing your opos game and like someone said above about a action killer may have come on turn so the push in this situation is easily the best play. If he is doing this with AK etc you obvi dont get called but that said you prob dont get called on a standard raise either unless he is holding some sort of draw cards and in all honesty i think when he said it was a crazy shove in the chat box he was really thinking crazy call lol ))
If this guy is a reg player then he really needs to plug a leak like this in his game because calling things like this must be massive -Ev long term but im a one to talk cos im always spewing cash at nlh lol.
NH
Guy has raised 6x in SB after two limps why does he HAVE to have an overpair, he could easily have AK/AQ, I personally hate the shove when your hand is so strong should raise to about £30 and go from there.
Finally why do you care if he thinks it's bad just keep letting him do it thinking he's right.
Q2 If he has AK do you think it makes much difference if we make it 30 or shove? Maybe, but prob not a lot imo
Postflop, idk, you prob know your customer well and I find people often call off lighter to shoves than small raises. However I prefer the smaller raise as it makes it more likely you are bluffing, and there is a small chance he might 3bet air. Also he may fold JJ,QQ etc to a shove quicker than a smaller raise. Really dont mind the shove though
I cant beleive he called it off if hes decent (unless you are superaggro), your range after action absolutely crushes KK as you very rarely have just a bare draw or something like JJ
2. Well of course not vs AK but shoving with top set just doesn't feel right imo, I guess the one positive is it looks like a draw played strong but still prefer £30 raise.
in a vacuum i think flop jam isnt optimal but if you're sure he doesnt fold overpairs, then its fine
In Response to Re: Your thoughts on this hand please: 1st bolded part doesnt make much sense
2nd bolded part is just results orientated thinking
that does make sense and id probably agree with it, but id rather be making it £30 rather than 130 so that i can actually have bluffs in my range.
2. if we open shove aces and our opponent calls with kings then its a great shove obv.
3. 'mixing my game up' is an excuse for playing a hand sub optimally 99% of the time
4. no u
When you watch live poker streams players tank for like ages
But these situations will come up again and again so the more you let the right play
sink into your head then I guess the majority of the time you will make the right move
Bit like brainwashing yourself
Sorry for all of the friction i seem to have caused here lol
My thoughts on the hand were as i explained at start.
I was doing this completely because i felt certain he had a big pp because of his 6.5 bb raise which he "NEVER" does and also him betting out on flop with a player in the hand that has been calling or raising almost every flop bet in almost every hand for the last hour and i was 100% certain he wouldnt fold it to my push but didnt want to raise standard incase a scare card came on turn giving him more reason to fold (although he prob still wouldnt fold but why take chance when i know he calls shove).
And like i said in op post v other regs i play it different.
I posted the hand because i was following on from something Ed was saying on mastercash last week about how much to bet v certain players in certain situations and in this instence i felt the amount to bet was "THE LOT"
TY for all your replys as normal because all of the feed back can only help us all in long run and please dont argue because its only a game lol.
Jenny.
Gotta agree it is the hardest thing in poker knowing the amount to bet that your getting paid on or to bluff there range out. Thats what makes good players - GREAT - Phil Ivey is a player you may of heard of who is just unreal at doing this -
WP